View Poll Results: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

Voters
18. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, the War on Terror has been a disaster.

    12 66.67%
  • No, Osama did not achieve anything.

    4 22.22%
  • I'm undecided.

    2 11.11%
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 28

Thread: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

  1. #11
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I'm not going to pretend to be an economist, but it seems to me that the money spent on growing government, fighting terrorism, and paying Iraqis not to kill each other could have been spent on infrastructure, education, energy investment, and jobs that actually have a positive impact on the US.

    I could be wrong, and I'm willing to learn...
    I won't argue that it's the wisest use of resources. I will argue, though, that we probably couldn't have mustered the political will to do as effective a job at creating those high-end jobs in public service.

  2. #12
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Looking back at the last decade, I can't help but feel that Osama actually achieved his goals. What do you think?
    You need an 'Other' option because the war isn't over. There is no Caliphate, the House of Saud has not been overthrown, the United States has not withdrawn from the Middle East or SE Asia, Kashmir is not liberated, East Timor is not reconquered, Israel remains in occupation of Jerusalem and the West Bank (not to mention in existence), etc. Almost by definition Osama Bin Laden did not accomplish the objectives he laid out for himself and his organization. His goal was not simply to wound the United States it was to complete an overthrow of the existing order in the Islamic world in favor of a pan-Islamist state and drive the United States from all of its lands--this has palpably not come to pass.

    That being said the United States has obviously not succeeded in effecting its objectives, at least not nearly as much as might desire. But we have had our successes to highlight some of the less well known or considered ones you could turn to the annihilation of al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, the continuing suppression of Islamists in Yemen, the defeat of Islamists in Mali, etc, etc.

    But that isn't really the thrust of this article is it? The point raised is that we have spent a prodigious amount in this conflict and therefore Bin Laden has won despite his failures. I'm not sure that is a fair assessment but there may be some truth to it. Nevertheless my conclusion would be that the end of this conflict has yet to be written and it's still too early to decide.

  3. #13
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Osama didn't just bleed America of treasure, he had a huge impact on foreign policy, both during after the 9/11 attacks and right up through Obama's presidency. America is so war-weary that Obama couldn't muster support for military intervention if he wanted to. Then there's the Patriot Act, NSA surveillance, the ramped up security precautions throughout America, the divisiveness of politics; turning Americans against each other.

    Total investment: 19 men with box cutters
    Total investment? 19 men with box cutters? That's ridiculous.

    Try hundreds of millions of dollars, spread throughout the globe, to gin up radical Islamic support, and support terrorism.

  4. #14
    Sage
    Perotista's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    17,937
    Blog Entries
    25

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Looking back at the last decade, I can't help but feel that Osama actually achieved his goals. What do you think?
    I think he did. most people scoff at the idea but UBL knew he could never defeat America on the battlefield. He got us, the good old USA to spend trillions on homeland security and to abridge our freedoms prior to 9-11. He got us involved in two wars that we probably would have never been involved in without the 9-11 attack. He is bleeding this nation to death even after his death.

    I understand where you are coming from and the results 9-11 produced. But most people will not be able to get off the battlefield to the other causes and effects in our post 9-11 world.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  5. #15
    Guru

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Nevada
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    4,838

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Osama didn't just bleed America of treasure, he had a huge impact on foreign policy, both during after the 9/11 attacks and right up through Obama's presidency. America is so war-weary that Obama couldn't muster support for military intervention if he wanted to. Then there's the Patriot Act, NSA surveillance, the ramped up security precautions throughout America, the divisiveness of politics; turning Americans against each other.

    Total investment: 19 men with box cutters
    You're wrong about that investment.

    We've killed so many and destroyed so much in the ME, with our armed forces, drone strikes and surgical missiles, I would bet that Al Qaida and the rest of the Middle East denizens wish Bin Laden had never been born. Look at the unwelcome spotlight that has been focused on the Muslim Jihadists around the entire world.

    Now Obama has come along and through his bumbling, he has destabilized the entire Middle East and inadvertently caused many, many more deaths.

    It's naive to cite an initial small investment as the total cost of a decade long operation. It's been a huge loss for all involved.
    Last edited by Ray410; 06-23-14 at 01:27 PM.

  6. #16
    Chews the Cud
    Amadeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Benghazi
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    6,081

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Total investment? 19 men with box cutters? That's ridiculous.
    No, what I said was correct. 9/11 was the catalyst for the War on Terror.

  7. #17
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    No, what I said was correct. 9/11 was the catalyst for the War on Terror.
    No, what you posted was a simplistic snippet of fact in an attempt to be dramatic.

  8. #18
    Chews the Cud
    Amadeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Benghazi
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    6,081

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    Now Obama has come along and through his bumbling, he has destabilized the entire Middle East and inadvertently caused many, many more deaths.
    Quoted for posterity.

  9. #19
    Sage
    polgara's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,350

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    No, what I said was correct. 9/11 was the catalyst for the War on Terror.
    Greetings, Amadeus.

    I thought you might be interested in the link below. It is the gift shop here at DP. I ordered some coffee mugs a while back to give as gifts, and they were top notch! They have just about everything for sale, from T-shirts to mugs to ? Highly recommend them, and I hope DP makes a little money in the process to continue this great site!

    Http://www.cafepress.com/debatepolitics.

  10. #20
    Only Losers H8 Capitalism
    Spartacus FPV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In your echo chamber
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    12,891

    Re: Did Osama Bin Laden achieve his goals?

    He won the moment we passed the Patriot Act. He could never destroy us or our values (liberty) on a battlefield, but he managed to scare us into doing it to ourselves.

    Instead of reacting to 9/11 as we did, we should have just rebuilt the tower EXACTLY as they were and never mentioned his name again. That would have been a big **** YOU to terrorists, it would have said loud and clear "you're not going to scare us, you're not going to change us, we're just going to keep being free; business as usual"
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •