View Poll Results: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs?

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Thread: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Lots of "fat" people find mates

    Oh no yeah they do, but not the mates they want. Oh sure they say they wanted them but did they really? A beggar can't be all too picky. And fat rich people don't generally have good marriages or even stay married. Tom Leykis is basically a perfect example of this. The man has been through numerous divorces even though he's rich.

    So yeah, you're right. Fat rich people can buy a prize mate but that's my point. So you spent all that time, blood, effort and more to become rich only to have to settle for never really being loved because you let your body go? Seems completely contradictory to the whole "Individualism trumps all" mindset.

    What's the point of all that wealth if you know if you didn't have it your wife or husband would be plowing someone else? That would be the ultimate irony really. You built this great wealth all to know the person you're giving access to your bank account really married your bank account and not you. How bittersweet would that be?

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post

    What's the point of all that wealth if you know if you didn't have it your wife or husband would be plowing someone else?
    What's the point of having a fitness model body if you know that if you didn't have it, your wife or husband "would be plowing someone else"?

    Money or looks, I don't know that it makes a difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    Well I suppose what I should say instead, and what is more accurate, is that there are different levels of health. Judged from a healthy (no fat, not even 5 pounds overweight) persons point of view, the idea that there exist "Better levels of fat" is truly hilarious is all I mean to say. In my opinion being 5 pounds overweight would even be worse than 20 because at least with 20 you can play to the letter the fat person card, whereas with 5 it's just outright shameful neglect.
    There are definitely different levels of fatness, and no particular "ideal" level. It's not like someone who is 5'11" should be at exactly 0% bodyfat (which isn't even compatible with life).

    Competitive bodybuilders at the time of competition will drop below 8% bodyfat, sometimes way below that, but they are technically malnurished and often become ill if they try to stay that low more than a day or two. Hardbody fitness models will try to be as close to 8% as possible. 12% bodyfat is considered very athletic and most people will have at least somewhat visible abs at that level. Something like 15%-18% is considered healthy normal. The average non-obese non-athletic American is probably more like 20-25% bodyfat.

    So what would 5 lbs overweight be for someone 5'11"?
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    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    What's the point of having a fitness model body if you know that if you didn't have it, your wife or husband "would be plowing someone else"?

    Money or looks, I don't know that it makes a difference.
    The difference is very clear though. Think about it.


    Is a fat rich guys skinny wife thinking about him while he's plowing her or the pool boy who's there when he's at work? Who do you, honestly, think she's moaning to? My money is on the pool boy or her personal trainer.


    Also, if you aren't fat then you know your woman, man is with you for you, not a bank account (or maybe you're rich too and not fat, which at least gives you a 50% chance of her/him being there for you).


    So it actually is a big difference and you can see it very clearly in our society.


    Why do gorgeous young women hang out at gyms where obviously low and middle income guys hangout? Because that's what it's about. They don't expect to find a rich guy at the gym..
    Last edited by Ryan5; 07-10-14 at 12:16 AM.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Money or looks, I don't know that it makes a difference.

    By the way, here's how it makes a difference.

    When you're in shape and not fat, you can be a Google Executive and NOT have to die because the woman you paid for sex decided to kill you.


    Did she kill before? Call girl, 26, who poisoned client with heroin wrote online about 'love' of killing sprees and is being investigated for another death | Mail Online

    Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges
    She is being accused of leaving client Forrest Hayes, 51, to die after he suffered an adverse reaction to heroin last November
    Just six days before her July 4 arrest, Tichelman wrote about her 'love' of killing sprees on Facebook
    Detectives say she is also being investigating in connection to a similar death in another state


    A call girl accused of heartlessly leaving a client to die from a drug overdose, wrote about her 'love' of killing sprees in a Facebook post published just days before her July 4 arrest.
    Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges in connection to the November 2013 death of Google exec Forrest Hayes, 51.
    Surveillance footage obtained by investigators shows Tichelman injecting Hayes with heroin, and then casually leaving him to die when he has an adverse reaction to the drug.
    Scroll down for video
    Heartless: Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges in relation to the November 2013 death of Google executive Forrest Hayes. Prosecutors are accusing Tichelman, a call girl, of leaving Hayes to die of a drug overdose
    +11
    Heartless: Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges in relation to the November 2013 death of Google executive Forrest Hayes. Prosecutors are accusing Tichelman, a call girl, of leaving Hayes to die of a drug overdose
    Online connection: Tichelman (left) allegedly met Hayes (right) on the dating website Seeking Arrangement, which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich, older, men and women
    SHARE PICTURE
    +11
    Online connection: Tichelman (left) allegedly met Hayes (right) on the dating website Seeking Arrangement, which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich, older, men and women
    +11
    Online connection: Tichelman (left) allegedly met Hayes (right) on the dating website Seeking Arrangement, which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich, older, men and women
    And this may not have been Tichelman's first killing, as detectives are also investigating Tichelman for a similar death in another state.
    Tichelman was apparently fascinated with the topic of serial murders, according to posts she wrote on Facebook just last month.
    'Really nice to talk with someone about killing sprees and murdering people in cold blood...and they love it too,' she wrote in a June 28 post.
    'No judgement, Yay! F*** all of that positivity bulls***. Take a look around you. Life is hard and then you die,' she added.

    In court on Wednesday, Tichelman did not enter a plea and was assigned a public defender.
    Tichelman has been held on $1.5million bond since her July 4 arrest, when she met with an undercover cop at a Santa Cruz hotel who said he wanted to pay her $1,000 for sex.
    The high-priced prostitute allegedly met Hayes, the married father of five, on website 'Seeking Arrangement' which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich older men or women.
    Police say the two met a few times before the deadly November 26 encounter.
    That day, they met on Hayes' 50-foot yacht, Escape, at the Santa Cruz Small Craft Harbor and Tichelman brought heroin before injecting him with the drug, police said.
    Scene: She allegedly took the heroin to his yacht, pictured, and administered the drug but as he lay dying, she stepped over his body to finish a glass of wine before leaving the boat
    +11
    Scene: She allegedly took the heroin to his yacht, pictured, and administered the drug but as he lay dying, she stepped over his body to finish a glass of wine before leaving the boat
    Surveillance video from inside the luxury boat shows Hayes 'suffering medical complications' and losing consciousness - but Tichelman makes no attempt to help him or call 911, police said.
    Instead, she is seen gathering her belongings, stepping over his dying body to finish her glass of wine and then leaving the boat - pulling a window blind down to conceal his body from outside.







    I guess his money and blubber didn't help him too much, eh? Maybe if he was able to attract a woman who actually loved him he'd still be around instead of having been murdered by a woman he paid for sex.
    Last edited by Ryan5; 07-10-14 at 01:28 AM.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    I posted this elsewhere but it seems to me that it has some relevance to this thread -

    "It is amazing how complete is the delusion that beauty is goodness." Leo Tolstoy

    As someone who has always been judged to be 'too skinny', I have sympathy with people who are judged to be 'too fat'. It is not always their fault for many, many reasons. There are genetic considerations, there are glandular conditions, but most importantly, there are two major influences - nature and society.

    The animal condition is programmed to eat as much as possible when food is plentiful, and store the energy as fat for times of scarcity - in order to survive and pass on our genes. But technology and social development has progressed to the point that (in the developed western world, at least) we can eat as much as we like all year round. Food is plentiful, and the least healthy foodstuffs are the most readily available and cheap. It is therefore no coincidence that the most economically disadvantaged demographic is often the most unhealthily overweight. It is no coincidence that the British were healthiest as a nation during, and for a few years after, the 2nd World War, when they were subjected to food rationing (particularly sugar and saturated fats).

    Added to which, the capitalistic system so beloved of many of us encourages the corporate world to create, and disseminate the likes of Hershey, McDonalds, Coca Cola, and Kentucky Fried Chicken world wide. I saw a German TV report which showed that McDonalds has a huge research department which (amongst other things) calculates the exact amount of sugar to put in their buns so as to attract small children.

    Another element, particularly with the economically disadvantaged, is the seeking of solace in 'comfort foods' (almost all of which are high in carbohydrates - high in saturated fats - and/or high in sugar content). When life is just drudgery with little to look forward to, many people eat things like chocolate, ice cream, pizza and burgers for the short term high in glucose levels those foods provide. This similar to the reason people drink alcohol to forget, briefly, that the electricity bill is overdue. Both are simply escapism, which is not desirable but humanly understandable.

    I do not approve of people who are overweight, people who smoke, people who have pre-existing medical conditions (whether inherited or self-inflicted,) being penalised by society. The whole concept of private health is deeply flawed because of these issues - all private enterprise is by definition rent and profit seeking, and will have no moral compunction over excluding benefits to anyone they can. They will be lauded by the shareholders of the corporations concerned, and encouraged to do so to a greater extent. Never mind the state of society - look at those dividends!

    The fact that our society finds overweight people aesthetically unattractive does not justify penalising and marginalising them in an economic sense. The very nature of insurance (whether by means of private corporations or by an universal health care system funded via taxation,) is the spreading of risk across a wide demographic and financing services thereby. The corporate world will always ague against this concept, but society should be more than the economic bottom line.

    And, LOL, what happens to people like me when being too skinny is seen as a health risk?
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    By the way, here's how it makes a difference.

    When you're in shape and not fat, you can be a Google Executive and NOT have to die because the woman you paid for sex decided to kill you.


    Did she kill before? Call girl, 26, who poisoned client with heroin wrote online about 'love' of killing sprees and is being investigated for another death | Mail Online

    Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges
    She is being accused of leaving client Forrest Hayes, 51, to die after he suffered an adverse reaction to heroin last November
    Just six days before her July 4 arrest, Tichelman wrote about her 'love' of killing sprees on Facebook
    Detectives say she is also being investigating in connection to a similar death in another state


    A call girl accused of heartlessly leaving a client to die from a drug overdose, wrote about her 'love' of killing sprees in a Facebook post published just days before her July 4 arrest.
    Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges in connection to the November 2013 death of Google exec Forrest Hayes, 51.
    Surveillance footage obtained by investigators shows Tichelman injecting Hayes with heroin, and then casually leaving him to die when he has an adverse reaction to the drug.
    Scroll down for video
    Heartless: Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges in relation to the November 2013 death of Google executive Forrest Hayes. Prosecutors are accusing Tichelman, a call girl, of leaving Hayes to die of a drug overdose
    +11
    Heartless: Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges in relation to the November 2013 death of Google executive Forrest Hayes. Prosecutors are accusing Tichelman, a call girl, of leaving Hayes to die of a drug overdose
    Online connection: Tichelman (left) allegedly met Hayes (right) on the dating website Seeking Arrangement, which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich, older, men and women
    SHARE PICTURE
    +11
    Online connection: Tichelman (left) allegedly met Hayes (right) on the dating website Seeking Arrangement, which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich, older, men and women
    +11
    Online connection: Tichelman (left) allegedly met Hayes (right) on the dating website Seeking Arrangement, which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich, older, men and women
    And this may not have been Tichelman's first killing, as detectives are also investigating Tichelman for a similar death in another state.
    Tichelman was apparently fascinated with the topic of serial murders, according to posts she wrote on Facebook just last month.
    'Really nice to talk with someone about killing sprees and murdering people in cold blood...and they love it too,' she wrote in a June 28 post.
    'No judgement, Yay! F*** all of that positivity bulls***. Take a look around you. Life is hard and then you die,' she added.

    In court on Wednesday, Tichelman did not enter a plea and was assigned a public defender.
    Tichelman has been held on $1.5million bond since her July 4 arrest, when she met with an undercover cop at a Santa Cruz hotel who said he wanted to pay her $1,000 for sex.
    The high-priced prostitute allegedly met Hayes, the married father of five, on website 'Seeking Arrangement' which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich older men or women.
    Police say the two met a few times before the deadly November 26 encounter.
    That day, they met on Hayes' 50-foot yacht, Escape, at the Santa Cruz Small Craft Harbor and Tichelman brought heroin before injecting him with the drug, police said.
    Scene: She allegedly took the heroin to his yacht, pictured, and administered the drug but as he lay dying, she stepped over his body to finish a glass of wine before leaving the boat
    +11
    Scene: She allegedly took the heroin to his yacht, pictured, and administered the drug but as he lay dying, she stepped over his body to finish a glass of wine before leaving the boat
    Surveillance video from inside the luxury boat shows Hayes 'suffering medical complications' and losing consciousness - but Tichelman makes no attempt to help him or call 911, police said.
    Instead, she is seen gathering her belongings, stepping over his dying body to finish her glass of wine and then leaving the boat - pulling a window blind down to conceal his body from outside.







    I guess his money and blubber didn't help him too much, eh? Maybe if he was able to attract a woman who actually loved him he'd still be around instead of having been murdered by a woman he paid for sex.
    Interesting article, but surely people who are "in shape" have been killed by their spouses also.

    I'm still wondering what constitutes not being fat in your mind. Having a body like a competitive bodybuilder on the day of a competition, with every muscle and vein bulging and visible? Or a hard body/beach body fitness model? Or just being an average Joe/Jane who doesn't look athletic at all, but who does meet the BMI criteria?

    Different people are attracted to different body types. Personally, skinny girls do absolutely nothing for me. Three hundred pounders don't do anything anything for me, but if I had my choice between a 5'7" girl who was 115 lbs, and one who was 160, everything else being equal, I'd probably take the heavier chick.

    Many years ago I had a military buddy who was a competitive bodybuilder. Some girls had absolutely no interest in him, others flocked to him like he was a movie star. He told me that one girl told him that he looked disgusting, but one time we were dressed in BDUs, went into a gas station, and the attendent openly told him that he had a "nice arse". Everyone is different.
    Last edited by imagep; 07-10-14 at 12:00 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    By the way, here's how it makes a difference.

    When you're in shape and not fat, you can be a Google Executive and NOT have to die because the woman you paid for sex decided to kill you.


    Did she kill before? Call girl, 26, who poisoned client with heroin wrote online about 'love' of killing sprees and is being investigated for another death | Mail Online

    Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges
    She is being accused of leaving client Forrest Hayes, 51, to die after he suffered an adverse reaction to heroin last November
    Just six days before her July 4 arrest, Tichelman wrote about her 'love' of killing sprees on Facebook
    Detectives say she is also being investigating in connection to a similar death in another state


    A call girl accused of heartlessly leaving a client to die from a drug overdose, wrote about her 'love' of killing sprees in a Facebook post published just days before her July 4 arrest.
    Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges in connection to the November 2013 death of Google exec Forrest Hayes, 51.
    Surveillance footage obtained by investigators shows Tichelman injecting Hayes with heroin, and then casually leaving him to die when he has an adverse reaction to the drug.
    Scroll down for video
    Heartless: Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges in relation to the November 2013 death of Google executive Forrest Hayes. Prosecutors are accusing Tichelman, a call girl, of leaving Hayes to die of a drug overdose
    +11
    Heartless: Alix Tichelman, 26, appeared in Santa Cruz court on Wednesday to face manslaughter and drug charges in relation to the November 2013 death of Google executive Forrest Hayes. Prosecutors are accusing Tichelman, a call girl, of leaving Hayes to die of a drug overdose
    Online connection: Tichelman (left) allegedly met Hayes (right) on the dating website Seeking Arrangement, which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich, older, men and women
    SHARE PICTURE
    +11
    Online connection: Tichelman (left) allegedly met Hayes (right) on the dating website Seeking Arrangement, which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich, older, men and women
    +11
    Online connection: Tichelman (left) allegedly met Hayes (right) on the dating website Seeking Arrangement, which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich, older, men and women
    And this may not have been Tichelman's first killing, as detectives are also investigating Tichelman for a similar death in another state.
    Tichelman was apparently fascinated with the topic of serial murders, according to posts she wrote on Facebook just last month.
    'Really nice to talk with someone about killing sprees and murdering people in cold blood...and they love it too,' she wrote in a June 28 post.
    'No judgement, Yay! F*** all of that positivity bulls***. Take a look around you. Life is hard and then you die,' she added.

    In court on Wednesday, Tichelman did not enter a plea and was assigned a public defender.
    Tichelman has been held on $1.5million bond since her July 4 arrest, when she met with an undercover cop at a Santa Cruz hotel who said he wanted to pay her $1,000 for sex.
    The high-priced prostitute allegedly met Hayes, the married father of five, on website 'Seeking Arrangement' which pairs 'sugar babies' with rich older men or women.
    Police say the two met a few times before the deadly November 26 encounter.
    That day, they met on Hayes' 50-foot yacht, Escape, at the Santa Cruz Small Craft Harbor and Tichelman brought heroin before injecting him with the drug, police said.
    Scene: She allegedly took the heroin to his yacht, pictured, and administered the drug but as he lay dying, she stepped over his body to finish a glass of wine before leaving the boat
    +11
    Scene: She allegedly took the heroin to his yacht, pictured, and administered the drug but as he lay dying, she stepped over his body to finish a glass of wine before leaving the boat
    Surveillance video from inside the luxury boat shows Hayes 'suffering medical complications' and losing consciousness - but Tichelman makes no attempt to help him or call 911, police said.
    Instead, she is seen gathering her belongings, stepping over his dying body to finish her glass of wine and then leaving the boat - pulling a window blind down to conceal his body from outside.







    I guess his money and blubber didn't help him too much, eh? Maybe if he was able to attract a woman who actually loved him he'd still be around instead of having been murdered by a woman he paid for sex.
    Good God! What on earth does this have to do with being overweight or obese? Get a grip on yourself dude!

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    Well I suppose what I should say instead, and what is more accurate, is that there are different levels of health. Judged from a healthy (no fat, not even 5 pounds overweight) persons point of view, the idea that there exist "Better levels of fat" is truly hilarious is all I mean to say. In my opinion being 5 pounds overweight would even be worse than 20 because at least with 20 you can play to the letter the fat person card, whereas with 5 it's just outright shameful neglect.
    No one ever said "better" levels of fat. "Different" levels of fat. There is a difference between overweight and obese. So . . . how are you going to break that down?

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    No one ever said "better" levels of fat. "Different" levels of fat. There is a difference between overweight and obese. So . . . how are you going to break that down?
    What he weighs is perfect, someone who weighs 5 lbs more than him is a disgusting fat-fat-fatty.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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