View Poll Results: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs?

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Thread: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

  1. #431
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    When it comes to medicare/medicaid, they have to pretty much take care of anyone, no matter what and that's all tax supported.
    Right, but in my opinion, instead of taxing the crap out of junk food and sugary soft drinks, it makes a lot more sense to give you a preferred rate on Medicare if you are a healthy weight and a non-smoker, and pay a higher rate if you are a smoker or clinically obese. It seems to me that would go a long way towards providing recipients with the incentives to make better personal health choices and thus get costs under control.
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    While it may be forced, this isnt such a bad idea because it can be hell trying to get people in to get any preventative care. You cant get lots of people into the doc's unless they are dying or it's too late. Preventative care can save $ in the longer term.
    Its not totally forced though, just an incentive. You don't have to get a yearly health assessment to get coverage, you just pay a higher rate. To get the preferred rate, you have to get a health assessment. Some companies carry it further by requiring you to go to smoking cessation classes if you are a smoker and want the preferred rate, or participating in a wellness plan if you are obese to get the preferred rate.
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Right, but in my opinion, instead of taxing the crap out of junk food and sugary soft drinks, it makes a lot more sense to give you a preferred rate on Medicare if you are a healthy weight and a non-smoker, and pay a higher rate if you are a smoker or clinically obese. It seems to me that would go a long way towards providing recipients with the incentives to make better personal health choices and thus get costs under control.
    What do we do when the medicare reciepient can't afford to pay a higher rate? Do we then just let them die?

    And the weight that they have gained is often accumulated over decades, it didn't just happen the day they turned old enough to qualify for medicare. If we more heavily taxed sugar and foods with excess fat in them we are killing two birds with one stone. the first is that we are disincentizing the types of products that heavily contribute to us becoming fat. the second is that we are raising revenue to pay for the results of their food (or smoking) sins.

    We could charge everyone the same (low) rate for insurance, and then just subsidize the cost of insuring fatties and smokers out of the sin taxes that they paid in. Seems pretty straightforward to me, especially when we are talking about government paid for heathcare (Medicare/Medicade/etc).
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    When it comes to medicare/medicaid, they have to pretty much take care of anyone, no matter what and that's all tax supported.
    Yes, but Medicare is not free. There is a charge to be on Medicare. So, the question remains: Should obese people pay more for their Medicare than those of normal weight? Currently, they don't, but do use more health services.
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    What do we do when the medicare reciepient can't afford to pay a higher rate? Do we then just let them die?

    And the weight that they have gained is often accumulated over decades, it didn't just happen the day they turned old enough to qualify for medicare. If we more heavily taxed sugar and foods with excess fat in them we are killing two birds with one stone. the first is that we are disincentizing the types of products that heavily contribute to us becoming fat. the second is that we are raising revenue to pay for the results of their food (or smoking) sins.

    We could charge everyone the same (low) rate for insurance, and then just subsidize the cost of insuring fatties and smokers out of the sin taxes that they paid in. Seems pretty straightforward to me, especially when we are talking about government paid for heathcare (Medicare/Medicade/etc).
    My point is that it's mostly the poor who have these vices and who are overweight/obese. So, if we are going to charge them a surcharge, then we are actually charging ourselves a surcharge too, since we pay for their health insurance through taxes. Therefore, the proposal doesn't really make much sense and would only make health insurance more expensive for ALL of us in the long run.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    No. Under Smeagolcare hospital or doctor group membership is standard. One flat rate for single memberships, another flat rate for family memberships. Preexisting conditions have no bearing. However the voluntary individual healthy lifestyle incentive rebate applies. Being outside of the rage of one's recommended body mass index, along with a list of other items, would reduce the amount of the annual rebate check issued every December 1.
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    My point is that it's mostly the poor who have these vices and who are overweight/obese. So, if we are going to charge them a surcharge, then we are actually charging ourselves a surcharge too, since we pay for their health insurance through taxes. Therefore, the proposal doesn't really make much sense and would only make health insurance more expensive for ALL of us in the long run.
    Assumably the more pricy we make a product, the fewer people will purchase it. Italian sportscars are very expensive, so not many of us drive them. The more poor someone is, the more sensitive to prices they are, and thus the better the disincentive effect of higher prices.

    If we had a higher tax on sugar and fat filled foods, then the fewer of those foods the poor would purchase, and thus there would naturally be fewer overweight people, or at least they wouldn't be as overweight. this would result in a lower national healthcare bill, and would thus result in lower insurance prices for all of us.

    The side effect of increasing this sin tax would be to collect additional revenue from those who tend to be the worst abusers, this revenue could be used to subsidize the insurance risk of insuring fat people.

    Basically the way I see it, we have few options. We can allow insurance to become so unaffordable for faties that they just don't purchase it, and then we can just let them die untreated.

    Or we can jack up everyones insurance rate just a tad, essentially charging healthy people for the bill of avoidably unhealthy.

    Or we can keep their insurance rates modist by subsidizing it with revenue from bad food choices that they make. This seems to be the most human and sensible option. This way most everyone can acquire insurance, but those who tend to create their own health care costs will pay for those costs at the cash register (a little at a time, in a manner that is perceived as being affordable, and in direct proportion to the amount of bad choices that they make), instead of externalizing them onto other people.

    You have to step back and look at the big picture. I don't like to use the word "fair" in an economic discussion, but this is certainly practical.
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    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    No. Under Smeagolcare hospital or doctor group membership is standard. One flat rate for single memberships, another flat rate for family memberships. Preexisting conditions have no bearing. However the voluntary individual healthy lifestyle incentive rebate applies. Being outside of the rage of one's recommended body mass index, along with a list of other items, would reduce the amount of the annual rebate check issued every December 1.
    I'm a fan of some aspects of Smeagolcare, but isn't that just like jacking up the price of a product so that you can offer "desirable" customers a discount?

    And people like me, who exercise five or six days a week, live an active lifestyle even when I am not exercising, and eat a very healthy diet, have a low bodyfat percent, would still miss out on the discounts because I am above the BMI standards. I find that ironic because the only way that I could reduce my weight enough to meet the standard would be to have an amputation, or to stop exercising so that I loose muscle mass. Neither of those options are acceptible to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  9. #439
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I'm a fan of some aspects of Smeagolcare, but isn't that just like jacking up the price of a product so that you can offer "desirable" customers a discount?

    And people like me, who exercise five or six days a week, live an active lifestyle even when I am not exercising, and eat a very healthy diet, have a low bodyfat percent, would still miss out on the discounts because I am above the BMI standards. I find that ironic because the only way that I could reduce my weight enough to meet the standard would be to have an amputation, or to stop exercising so that I loose muscle mass. Neither of those options are acceptible to me.
    Yes but more. The voluntary healthy lifestyle incentives create a greater sense of there being and even playing field to some. Then anybody and everybody , or at least most people are eligible for a big fat Christmas bonus if they simply choose make healthy lifestyle choices like you:

    - Recommended BMI range
    - Low cholesterol
    - Low triglycerides
    - Verified regular work out regimen
    - Pass random recreational drug tests
    - Safe driver
    - Request a special state issued no alcohol or tobacco divers license

    Not all or nothing. Each item increases the rebate. There's also as group rebate so there's a peer pressure dynamic to making healthy choices. More importantly, it places carrots in the faces of Americans to want the REWARD of living healthily; money to spend at Christmas. Heck, all of the retail sector will be encouraging all of us to live healthily, our kids who want gifts, family who want the money to take that family vacation. The whole country would be incentivized. Meanwhile costs come down because health "insurance" is eliminated as an unneeded middleman on top of less expensive treatment since more of us will be living healthy.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  10. #440
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Yes but more. The voluntary healthy lifestyle incentives create a greater sense of there being and even playing field to some. Then anybody and everybody , or at least most people are eligible for a big fat Christmas bonus if they simply choose make healthy lifestyle choices like you:

    - Recommended BMI range
    - Low cholesterol
    - Low triglycerides
    - Verified regular work out regimen
    - Pass random recreational drug tests
    - Safe driver
    - Request a special state issued no alcohol or tobacco divers license

    Not all or nothing. Each item increases the rebate. There's also as group rebate so there's a peer pressure dynamic to making healthy choices. More importantly, it places carrots in the faces of Americans to want the REWARD of living healthily; money to spend at Christmas. Heck, all of the retail sector will be encouraging all of us to live healthily, our kids who want gifts, family who want the money to take that family vacation. The whole country would be incentivized. Meanwhile costs come down because health "insurance" is eliminated as an unneeded middleman on top of less expensive treatment since more of us will be living healthy.
    You dont think that it would be considered invasive to have to take drug tests for your insurance company? And doesn't that add to the cost of healthcare? And how would someone who exercises in their home verify that they exercised?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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