View Poll Results: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs?

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Thread: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

  1. #421
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Are body mass indexes not already taken into consideration? Like smoking and drinking? Such people already have higher rates, at least in some policies.
    In the vast majority of policies they are not taken into consideration. Few group plans take them into consideration, and Medicare doesn't either.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Being overweight doesnt always mean that insurances will have to fork out more money. Future health costs dont even exist if the person dies early. Or perhaps becomes fit?
    Granted, clinical obesity does take years off of life expectancy, but it only averages 3 years. The problem is that for decades prior, clinical obesity results in much higher healthcare costs due to increased heart disease rates, increased cancer rates, joint deterioration - in particular knee joint degeneration, and mobility issues.

    An active person with a health weight and good diet doesn't typically live more than a few years longer than someone that is obese. However, their quality of life in the later decades of their life is significantly better and they typically don't have the chronic conditions that are extremely expensive to treat.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If they're more likely to die, aren't they more likely to need health care as well?
    Yes, but Obamacare rules don't allow health insurers to charge obese people more. It makes no sense to me.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by The Man View Post
    Same thing with smoking. Smokers don't always get smoking related illnesses, but yet they have to pay more. If the obese person gets fit, then they wouldn't be obese and wouldn't pay more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If the person dies early or becomes fit, then their medical insurance rate will go down.

    Maybe even down to zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Granted, clinical obesity does take years off of life expectancy, but it only averages 3 years. The problem is that for decades prior, clinical obesity results in much higher healthcare costs due to increased heart disease rates, increased cancer rates, joint deterioration - in particular knee joint degeneration, and mobility issues.

    An active person with a health weight and good diet doesn't typically live more than a few years longer than someone that is obese. However, their quality of life in the later decades of their life is significantly better and they typically don't have the chronic conditions that are extremely expensive to treat.
    Study: Obesity Responsible for 18 Percent of U.S. Deaths “The impact of obesity on U.S. mortality appears somewhat more serious than suggested by existing findings,”


    BMI: Bogus Measurement or Valid Health Indicator? You Decide | The Daily PT

    "The BMI has actually been referred to as “mathematical snake oil”. Just like snake oil, it’s not a one size fits all formula. In fact, some would argue that it’s not an effective formula at all."

    Why BMI is inaccurate and misleading - Medical News Today

    "Every few months the same comment is made by experts "BMI is flawed". The news hits the headlines, everybody agrees, and then all goes quiet for a while."

    "BMI was devised in the 1830s by Lambert Adolphe Jacques Quetelet (1796-1874), a Belgian mathematician, sociologist, statistician and astronomer."

    Being medically overweight or obese is actually rather subjective. Couple that with the fact that it is also subjective whether extra weight in ALL cases is unhealthy then you end up with charging someone more for a service based on subjective data is a scam. True that some people who are what is considered overweight are unhealthy but then so are people who are considered normal weight. So far in this thread proponents of charging fat people more money have only been pointing at people because they deemed them fat. Look at all those silly photos shared that accused people of being fat. It was like grade school bullies gone amuck in this thread. They assume that everyone that they deem to be fat are the cause of rising healthcare insurance rates and rising medical costs.

    Some people are fat some people are not. Many who are fat are unhealthy many who are not fat are also unhealthy. Should people be fat? I agree that being fat is a bad choice (if indeed its a choice and not a symptom). No doubt being obese for most people is unhealthy. There is plenty of data that shows it. But being underweight is unhealthy as well. Also many other factors indicate a person is unhealthy. Subjective...

    But as far as generalizing the public and deeming fat people the cause of rising fees and charges for medical care and insurance policies is a witch hunt. It boils down to the philosophy of insurance rather than direct contracts or direct services. A third man between those seeking medical care and those providing it. Insurance is a collective pool of money that is supposed to pay for medical care that would not always be affordable for most people. It counts on there being more people not using insurance funds than those using it. The use of the funds is what is important not the conditions that could cause more use of funds. preventive care is awesome but then running to the doctor because you have a splinter or any of the many pathetic things that people run to the doctor for and get a script for a drug that they dont need is probably a larger suck on those funds than fat people.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Study: Obesity Responsible for 18 Percent of U.S. Deaths “The impact of obesity on U.S. mortality appears somewhat more serious than suggested by existing findings,”


    BMI: Bogus Measurement or Valid Health Indicator? You Decide | The Daily PT

    "The BMI has actually been referred to as “mathematical snake oil”. Just like snake oil, it’s not a one size fits all formula. In fact, some would argue that it’s not an effective formula at all."

    Why BMI is inaccurate and misleading - Medical News Today

    "Every few months the same comment is made by experts "BMI is flawed". The news hits the headlines, everybody agrees, and then all goes quiet for a while."

    "BMI was devised in the 1830s by Lambert Adolphe Jacques Quetelet (1796-1874), a Belgian mathematician, sociologist, statistician and astronomer."

    Being medically overweight or obese is actually rather subjective. Couple that with the fact that it is also subjective whether extra weight in ALL cases is unhealthy then you end up with charging someone more for a service based on subjective data is a scam. True that some people who are what is considered overweight are unhealthy but then so are people who are considered normal weight. So far in this thread proponents of charging fat people more money have only been pointing at people because they deemed them fat. Look at all those silly photos shared that accused people of being fat. It was like grade school bullies gone amuck in this thread. They assume that everyone that they deem to be fat are the cause of rising healthcare insurance rates and rising medical costs.

    Some people are fat some people are not. Many who are fat are unhealthy many who are not fat are also unhealthy. Should people be fat? I agree that being fat is a bad choice (if indeed its a choice and not a symptom). No doubt being obese for most people is unhealthy. There is plenty of data that shows it. But being underweight is unhealthy as well. Also many other factors indicate a person is unhealthy. Subjective...

    But as far as generalizing the public and deeming fat people the cause of rising fees and charges for medical care and insurance policies is a witch hunt. It boils down to the philosophy of insurance rather than direct contracts or direct services. A third man between those seeking medical care and those providing it. Insurance is a collective pool of money that is supposed to pay for medical care that would not always be affordable for most people. It counts on there being more people not using insurance funds than those using it. The use of the funds is what is important not the conditions that could cause more use of funds. preventive care is awesome but then running to the doctor because you have a splinter or any of the many pathetic things that people run to the doctor for and get a script for a drug that they dont need is probably a larger suck on those funds than fat people.
    So then you must think that if you get speeding tickets you should not be charged more for auto insurance?

    You must also think that if you have a wood shake roof on your home in an area prone to wildfires you should not be charged more for home owners insurance?

    You must also think then that if you get a dui, you should not have to carry an SR-22 policy?

    You seem to have a very flawed understanding of how insurance works.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    I fail to see how this is a political question unless the thread starter is leaving unstated an assumption that the government should mandate such a proposition?

    Left to its own devices, the market answers the question "absolutely" as greater risks carry greater associated cost. Should the government (presumably the federal government) mandate those kinds of considerations? Absolutely not. There is no constitutional authority for the federal government to legislate what a company charges for its goods or services.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    So then you must think that if you get speeding tickets you should not be charged more for auto insurance?

    You must also think that if you have a wood shake roof on your home in an area prone to wildfires you should not be charged more for home owners insurance?

    You must also think then that if you get a dui, you should not have to carry an SR-22 policy?

    You seem to have a very flawed understanding of how insurance works.
    Why I must I think those things?

    Auto insurance isnt at all comparable to health insurance. Its apples and oranges the only thing tying them together is the name insurance. Other than that insuring a car is nothing like health insurance. Auto insurance laws have to do with damage or injury to other drivers; liabilities. Speeding, drunk driving are a liability because it endangers other people not just the driver to drive like a idiot. To further your analogy what about cell phone users? Should cell phone users be charged more for insurance? What about women since they often use make up and some put it on on the way to work? Not all women and not all cell phone users pose a risk on our highways. Not all fat people are going to cost more money in their life time of medical care. Blaming fat people is a witch hunt that ignores the inherent problem with insurance driven medical care.

    Oh I left out home insurance. Which leads to the concept of building codes. Often in high risk areas there are building codes that address such things as fire risk, flood, land slides and what have you. Cars and houses/buildings are inanimate non thinking objects. It is our responsibility as thinking beings to take care of our possessions. It is also our personal responsibility to take care of ourselves. Charging more for a assumed risk to our personal body deserves actual evidence that the customer is actually unhealthy and will beyond all doubt cost more in the long run to take care of. Pointing fingers at fat people and screaming that they are costing you money on your own premium is a logical fallacy. Individual health is much more complex than lumping entire sections of society into a group that some people presume to be unhealthy based solely on their weight and appearance.

    If the goal is risk assessment then why single out the overweight and smokers why not just give a damn physical and go from there?

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Why I must I think those things?

    Auto insurance isnt at all comparable to health insurance. Its apples and oranges the only thing tying them together is the name insurance. Other than that insuring a car is nothing like health insurance. Auto insurance laws have to do with damage or injury to other drivers; liabilities. Speeding, drunk driving are a liability because it endangers other people not just the driver to drive like a idiot. To further your analogy what about cell phone users? Should cell phone users be charged more for insurance?
    Sure if the actuaries determine them to be a higher risk.

    What about women since they often use make up and some put it on on the way to work? Not all women and not all cell phone users pose a risk on our highways.
    Women typically pay lower auto insurance rates because they are statistically safer drivers.

    Not all fat people are going to cost more money in their life time of medical care. Blaming fat people is a witch hunt that ignores the inherent problem with insurance driven medical care.
    So if an actuary determines that a personal life choice, in this case obesity, statistically leads to higher health care costs, and thus determines that someone that is obese should pay higher insurance rate to reflect those higher health costs, its a "witch hunt".

    Would charging smokers more for health insurance be a witch hunt as well?


    Oh I left out home insurance. Which leads to the concept of building codes. Often in high risk areas there are building codes that address such things as fire risk, flood, land slides and what have you. Cars and houses/buildings are inanimate non thinking objects. It is our responsibility as thinking beings to take care of our possessions. It is also our personal responsibility to take care of ourselves. Charging more for a assumed risk to our personal body deserves actual evidence that the customer is actually unhealthy and will beyond all doubt cost more in the long run to take care of. Pointing fingers at fat people and screaming that they are costing you money on your own premium is a logical fallacy. Individual health is much more complex than lumping entire sections of society into a group that some people presume to be unhealthy based solely on their weight and appearance.

    If the goal is risk assessment then why single out the overweight and smokers why not just give a damn physical and go from there?
    Actually many group plans are already doing just that. In order to get the preferred rate at my employer, you must get a yearly health assessment (physical).
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    In the vast majority of policies they are not taken into consideration. Few group plans take them into consideration, and Medicare doesn't either.
    When it comes to medicare/medicaid, they have to pretty much take care of anyone, no matter what and that's all tax supported.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Actually many group plans are already doing just that. In order to get the preferred rate at my employer, you must get a yearly health assessment (physical).
    While it may be forced, this isnt such a bad idea because it can be hell trying to get people in to get any preventative care. You cant get lots of people into the doc's unless they are dying or it's too late. Preventative care can save $ in the longer term.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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