View Poll Results: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs?

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  • Yes

    48 52.75%
  • No

    43 47.25%
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Thread: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

  1. #331
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Back surgery's can be quite expensive, and also quite lingering when it comes to lifelong issues.

    Would you support universal healthcare then? If you think about it what we have now (shared risk) in private insurance is actually quite socialistic.
    I would support universal MAJOR MEDICAL INSURANCE, but not socialized medical care. The difference being that under universal major medical, the consumer picks up the tab for small insigificant stuff, and we all share in the cost of financially devisting care. Also, I don't really trust our government to be able to run our doctors offices and hospitals, I trust that to the private sector much more.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I would support universal MAJOR MEDICAL INSURANCE, but not socialized medical care. The difference being that under universal major medical, the consumer picks up the tab for small insigificant stuff, and we all share in the cost of financially devisting care. Also, I don't really trust our government to be able to run our doctors offices and hospitals, I trust that to the private sector much more.
    Oh, I so agree with you. I'm certain that the fact that we have relatively small deductibles accounts for the fact that the cost of medical care has skyrocketed. It's very difficult to get prices from hospitals and doctors. Why is that? Because the price fluctuates depending upon whether or not you have insurance and what kind of insurance you have. The consumer has been left out of the loop when it comes to competitive shopping. A recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

  3. #333
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I would support universal MAJOR MEDICAL INSURANCE, but not socialized medical care. The difference being that under universal major medical, the consumer picks up the tab for small insigificant stuff, and we all share in the cost of financially devisting care. Also, I don't really trust our government to be able to run our doctors offices and hospitals, I trust that to the private sector much more.
    Fair enough.. I simply think that profit motive, when it pertains to health insurance (not health care) ultimately leads to increased cost and reduction in quality. We see it all the time, premiums go up and coverage goes down. There has to be a better way and honestly I don't think this has a partisan solution but rather a humanist one.
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  4. #334
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by OnWisconsin View Post
    Fair enough.. I simply think that profit motive, when it pertains to health insurance (not health care) ultimately leads to increased cost and reduction in quality. We see it all the time, premiums go up and coverage goes down. There has to be a better way and honestly I don't think this has a partisan solution but rather a humanist one.
    The plan that I proposed to congress was that we would create insurance groups based upon that last 4 digits our social security cards, so that each group was statistically identical, and then bid contracts for a pre-designed major medical insurance plan to private insurance companies, who would competively bid on them. The profit motive would still exist, but insurance companies would have no need for advertising expenses or sales people and could significiantly reduce operating expenses. Every couple of years the policies would be up for bidding again. The fact that there would be a "consumer pays" portion would incentivize consumers to shop for care based on price and quality, thus giving doctors reasons to price compete for business.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  5. #335
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    The plan that I proposed to congress was that we would create insurance groups based upon that last 4 digits our social security cards, so that each group was statistically identical, and then bid contracts for a pre-designed major medical insurance plan to private insurance companies, who would competively bid on them. The profit motive would still exist, but insurance companies would have no need for advertising expenses or sales people and could significiantly reduce operating expenses. Every couple of years the policies would be up for bidding again. The fact that there would be a "consumer pays" portion would incentivize consumers to shop for care based on price and quality, thus giving doctors reasons to price compete for business.
    I suspect prices would not go down at all no matter if there was no need to spend money on certain things. Reduced operating costs would translate to better profits. Remember that we are talking about insurance companies, they are never going to lower prices they will just bid accordingly to maintain their edge. The larger ones will just buyout the company with the most winning bids. Then back to normal.

    For your idea to work there would have to be tough regulations.

  6. #336
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I suspect prices would not go down at all no matter if there was no need to spend money on certain things.
    As far as medical costs, everyone one spends something under my plan. Maybe you missed it, but my suggestion was for a universal major medical policy, not a comprehensive 100% paid for plan. Major medical policies typically only cover major medical expenses - thats why they are called "major medical". But even then, there does need to be a customer pays portion, even if it is just a few percent of the cost, so that the customer will have incentive to price shop.

    Reduced operating costs would translate to better profits. Remember that we are talking about insurance companies, they are never going to lower prices they will just bid accordingly to maintain their edge. The larger ones will just buyout the company with the most winning bids. Then back to normal.
    Price competition is what keeps prices in check. By having a bidding system, the lowest bidder would get his choice of how many groups he chooses to insure, then as per normal auction rules, an offer is made to the next lowest bidders to match the price for their choice of remaining groups, if all the groups aren't selected, then the second lowest bidder get's his choice of groups at the price it bid, and then any remaining groups are offered at that price to the next highers bidders, so on and so forth.

    Even if a large company did purchase other companies that were the low bidders, so what? They would still be stuck with the contracts at the price the low bidders bid.

    For your idea to work there would have to be tough regulations.

    I actually think that we would need fewer regulations under my idea, with the exception that the guberment would have to create the plan, and all plans would be identical. Maybe the insurance company would have to promise to make payment to the provider within X number of days, and a few other small things that they should do anyway. No biggie.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #337
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    As far as medical costs, everyone one spends something under my plan. Maybe you missed it, but my suggestion was for a universal major medical policy, not a comprehensive 100% paid for plan. Major medical policies typically only cover major medical expenses - thats why they are called "major medical". But even then, there does need to be a customer pays portion, even if it is just a few percent of the cost, so that the customer will have incentive to price shop.



    Price competition is what keeps prices in check. By having a bidding system, the lowest bidder would get his choice of how many groups he chooses to insure, then as per normal auction rules, an offer is made to the next lowest bidders to match the price for their choice of remaining groups, if all the groups aren't selected, then the second lowest bidder get's his choice of groups at the price it bid, and then any remaining groups are offered at that price to the next highers bidders, so on and so forth.

    Even if a large company did purchase other companies that were the low bidders, so what? They would still be stuck with the contracts at the price the low bidders bid.




    I actually think that we would need fewer regulations under my idea, with the exception that the guberment would have to create the plan, and all plans would be identical. Maybe the insurance company would have to promise to make payment to the provider within X number of days, and a few other small things that they should do anyway. No biggie.
    Its not that I dont like your plan (it beats the hell out many others ideas that i have heard) It just seems that given enough time there wouldnt be much difference between your plan and the current mess. It would take some type of law that forbid any changes to your plan by lobbying efforts etc. Also I just dont trust that everything will just work out on its own, that big business will do the right thing just because of the design of your plan. Bidding doesnt always work out as a good thing for the customer or at the very least certain sections of society.

    But your plan sounds like a good starting point that needs a lot of bickering over to hash out the details. All good plans start out as a idea then evolve as other people contribute. I suggest rethinking the 'it will all workout' part of your plan. That is the part that catches in my throat.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    I'm always just amazed that people just let themselves go so much in America even when they're in the public eye.. Must have something to do with being so easily able to blend in with all the other fat asses in America. Nobody's going to judge them! As an Americans myself it just sickens me. Such bad influences on our children. I don't think fat people should be allowed to serve in public office. It's a bad example.






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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    and again



  10. #340
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    I'm always just amazed that people just let themselves go so much in America even when they're in the public eye.. Must have something to do with being so easily able to blend in with all the other fat asses in America. Nobody's going to judge them! As an Americans myself it just sickens me. Such bad influences on our children. I don't think fat people should be allowed to serve in public office. It's a bad example....
    I have to give you credit for being a non-partisan fat people hater.

    Most posters on this forum would have only used people of the opposing party to use as fat fat fatty examples.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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