View Poll Results: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs?

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  • Yes

    48 52.75%
  • No

    43 47.25%
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Thread: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

  1. #131
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Type 2 diabetes CAN be caused by one's lifestyle, such as obesity or lack of exercise. Of course it is not as simple as slightly over eating or not being as active as one should; and both of which would need to occur over the long term. Also genetic predisposition plays into things.
    Perhaps we're arguing semantics, but I have to disagree.

    If you do not have the genetic condition that underlies it, then you will never get type 2 diabetes, no matter how bad your diet or lifestyle. It is the genetic condition that causes it, and not anything to do with diet or lifestyle.

    If you do have the genetic condition, then you will be affected by it in one way or another, regardless of whether or not it eventually manifests as type 2 diabetes, and your diet and lifestyle will have a lot to do with whether that happens or not.
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  2. #132
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Because universal education benefits everyone?
    Yes. In that same way the insurance pool is open for everyone, some that take up more resources than the average individually, some that take less than the average. It's a bell curve thing. When the curve becomes skewed because one or the other extreme becomes over-represented, we have what we identify as a social problem. In this case a greater incidence of obesity.

    That's when the actuaries step in. AND the FLOTUS starts making noise about what school children eat.

  3. #133
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Well, our new policy (Obamacare) is to only rate people by age and whether or not they smoke. Pre-existing conditions are accepted without rate change. Before Obamacare, people who had a myriad pre-existing conditions were either refused coverage, given coverage with exceptions, or their premiums reflected their increased risk. Severely obese people couldn't get individual health insurance at all. Same with high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.

    I'm assuming you're a Republican since this is a Democratic program start to finish? Southern Democrat?

    Or is this Bush's fault, too?
    Actually, prior to the ACA, preexisting conditions like a cancer history, various genetic disorders, congenital heart defects and so on were practically uninsurable. However, most states did not allow insurance to use obesity as a factor for determining rates. So you could be born with a condition that was no fault at all of your own, and not be able to get insurance as a result of it. However, you could be clinically obese and would pay the same rate as a marathoner.

    Personally, I think a moral system is one that does not deny coverage due to preexisting conditions that are beyond your control (genetic disorders, most cancers, and so on), but does accurately price in the costs of poor life choices like smoking, obesity, using tanning beds and so on. If that was how medical insurance worked, then it would work like every other form of insurance. People should be free to live their lives how they choose, but that freedom should not extend so much that others who make better personal health choices subsidize their poor choices.
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  4. #134
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Perhaps we're arguing semantics, but I have to disagree.

    If you do not have the genetic condition that underlies it, then you will never get type 2 diabetes, no matter how bad your diet or lifestyle. It is the genetic condition that causes it, and not anything to do with diet or lifestyle.

    If you do have the genetic condition, then you will be affected by it in one way or another, regardless of whether or not it eventually manifests as type 2 diabetes, and your diet and lifestyle will have a lot to do with whether that happens or not.
    Yes, probably a matter of semantics. Lifestyle can cause type 2 diabetes only if you have the genetic predisposition. You may never show symptoms, but one the "switch" is turned "on", it's on. Very similar to how schizophrenia manifests.
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  5. #135
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Perhaps we're arguing semantics, but I have to disagree.

    If you do not have the genetic condition that underlies it, then you will never get type 2 diabetes, no matter how bad your diet or lifestyle. It is the genetic condition that causes it, and not anything to do with diet or lifestyle.

    If you do have the genetic condition, then you will be affected by it in one way or another, regardless of whether or not it eventually manifests as type 2 diabetes, and your diet and lifestyle will have a lot to do with whether that happens or not.
    That argument is nothing more than a rationalization of poor health choices. For example, if you are lucky enough to have the genetics that give you a very high resistance to inflammation, you can smoke 2 packs a day your whole life and will never develop lung cancer. Moreover, in such a scenario you could eat poorly your whole life and never develop heart disease. So by your reasoning, people that eat poorly and develop heart disease have a genetic condition that causes it, as there are some people whose genes allow them to eat what they want without ever developing heart disease.

    Similarly, there are those that due to their individual genetics can eat poorly and never exercise and never end up developing Type 2 Diabetes. However, that does not mean that someone that does develop Type 2 Diabetes can just blame it on their genetics because in the vast majority of cases had they watched their diet and exercised regularly, they would have never developed Type 2 Diabetes, would probably spend hundreds of thousands less of the course of their life in medical costs, and probably live years longer.
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  6. #136
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    That argument is nothing more than a rationalization of poor health choices. For example, if you are lucky enough to have the genetics that give you a very high resistance to inflammation, you can smoke 2 packs a day your whole life and will never develop lung cancer. Moreover, in such a scenario you could eat poorly your whole life and never develop heart disease. So by your reasoning, people that eat poorly and develop heart disease have a genetic condition that causes it, as there are some people whose genes allow them to eat what they want without ever developing heart disease.

    Similarly, there are those that due to their individual genetics can eat poorly and never exercise and never end up developing Type 2 Diabetes. However, that does not mean that someone that does develop Type 2 Diabetes can just blame it on their genetics because in the vast majority of cases had they watched their diet and exercised regularly, they would have never developed Type 2 Diabetes, would probably spend hundreds of thousands less of the course of their life in medical costs, and probably live years longer.
    No, I am not rationalizing poor health choices.

    With or without the underlying genetic condition that causes type 2 diabetes, we are all responsible for making choices that will affect our health for good or for ill. And in some cases, poor choices may indeed rightfully be cited as the cause of a particular ailment, rather than merely an aggravating condition.

    Type 2 diabetes is not such a case. It is the underlying genetic condition which causes it. Poor diet and lifestyle choices will certainly aggravate this condition, but they are not the cause of it.

    But really, it gets back to the argument that someone else was making, based on the assumption that everyone who is obese is so because of poor choices. This is false. The genetic condition that underlies type 2 diabetes can cause obesity, and it can be extremely difficult for someone with this condition to avoid this effect. To assume that every person who suffers from obesity is just a fat, lazy slob, who deserves the condition, is just plain ignorant.
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  7. #137
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    You think everyone who is overweight can prevent it?
    That is still a common misconception with many people.

    Yes, some are simply undisciplined. Not all. Not even close.
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Overweight people already do pay more. Overall. As a general rule.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #139
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Obviously I can't post the entire article, but it is worth going to the link and reading it. The people who cost society the most are those who live the longest requiring expensive end of life care. Not smokers who die in early to mid 50s.
    If the concern is how much *I* have to pay, which I believe is the sole and true motivation of most who advocate tiered pricing, then it would seem their conclusions are incorrect and shortsighted.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Mine is the same but in my defense I have a bad back, bad knees and arthritis. I have enough braces, heating pads, ice packs, comfort cushions, NSAIDS, meds, creams, roll on's and patches to start a pharmacy. I eat half the calories I used too in my 30's and still struggle with weight gain.
    Sorry to hear that, and that's another issue. Some people cannot help but be overweight because of their limited mobility.
    Yep. In today's world, with the knowledge we have available, to dismiss fat people as simply being undisciplined isn't just ignorance... it's willful ignorance. There are way too many potential variables for one to make such a simplistic conclusion.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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