View Poll Results: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs?

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  • Yes

    48 52.75%
  • No

    43 47.25%
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Thread: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

  1. #121
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    No, it cannot.

    Type 1 diabetes is caused by an autoimmune disorder, which attacks and destroys the pancreas.

    Type 2 diabetes is caused by a genetic disorder which interferes with the chemical action of insulin.

    Neither of these conditions is ever caused by poor diet. Both of these conditions require a specialized diet, but if you do not have the underlying autoimmune or genetic disorders that cause them, then no amount of poor diet will will ever cause you to develop either condition.
    I believe that you are correct about Type 1, but may be incorrect about type 2.

    I was a fat lazy slob who had type 2, now I am fit and trim and eat a better diet, and I no longer need medication for diabetes. Yes, I do believe that there may be a genetic predisposition for type 2, but from my personal experience, I also believe that diet contributes to it, and that it can be dealt with by diet.

    There is nothing better than to hear your doc say "congratulations, you have dieted yourself to health".
    Last edited by imagep; 06-21-14 at 02:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  2. #122
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Quite frankly this is a disgusting thread. All it does is show the extent that people want to go in order to control other peoples lives in a way that THEY think a person should live. What the hell ever happened to "live and let live"? Or that big scary word...FREEDOM?
    But why should someone who lives a healthy lifestyle have to pay for the "freedom" of someone who doesn't?

    I do tend to agree that everyone should pay the exact same amount for health insurance though. If we charged for insuranced based upon every discoverable detail of ones lifestyle and genetic traits, then insurance really wouldn't be insurance, as we would all be charged for insurance almost exactly the same as our medical bills cost (plus insurance co. overhead and profit). that would defeat the purpose of insurance.

    thats part of the reason that I support government paid for universal major medical insurance. Assuming that it truly was major medical (covering only expenses that would otherwise be financially disasterous), and had a consumer pays portion of EVERY medical proceedure (to promote consumers shopping for insurance so that providers have a reason to compete on price and quality), such insurance could be paid with the money that government, all levels combined, already spend on healthcare. When I was researching this, about four or five years ago, I found that all levels of government combined spent about 1.2 trillion dollars a year on healthcare. that averaged out to about $4k per citizen, which is ample to pay for a major medical policy for every individual.

    We could still indirectly charge for the externalities that people create by unhealthy eating, just by having a sin tax on foods which are exceptionally poor choices, and then use the revenues from this sin tax to help to pay for the universal insurance. So maybe we tax the heck out of sugar, then that tax gets indirectly or directly passed on to people who eat a large amount of sugar filled foods, and thus they end up paying a little additional for their medical care, while at the same time they are disincentivised from making those bad choices. We could tax any food that contains more than X% of it's calories in fats the same way.

    It's not a perfect system, but it's probably the best system, and most politically viable system that we could have.
    Last edited by imagep; 06-21-14 at 02:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  3. #123
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    What about epileptics? Or mentally retarded? Or diabetics?
    With the exception of adult onset diabetics, they did not do that to themselves. If you are obese, its due to lifestyle. I don't think your costs for procedures should be marked up, but the cost of your insurance premiums should reflect the added risk that your life choices (in this case being obese) result in. The same would be true for smokers.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  4. #124
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    In addition to Crue Cab's list of medical conditions, how about professional race car drivers? Professional wrestlers? Boxers? Olympic skiers?
    They do carry additional policies to cover the risks of their profession.

    Bunge jumpers? Parachutists? Bad drivers?

    Bunge Jumpers and Sky Divers sign a waver. Bad drivers typically pay a lot more for auto insurance.


    Alcoholics? People who drive motor cycles? People who get X-number of speeding tickets? Traffic accidents?

    These people all pay more for auto insurance.

    Health insurance is the only form of insurance where your life choices and the risks associated with them are typically not accounted for with your premiums. For example, a guy that regularly exercises, eats a whole foods diet, and never smoked, will usually pay the same rate as a guy that is morbidly obese, never exercises, and eats nothing but fast food.

    My profile picture is a picture of me when I finished a 9 mile run in below zero weather. I eat well, am dedicated to my personal fitness, and my physicals and blood work always reflects that, so why should some fat ass that sits around eating crap all day and never exercises pay the same health insurance rate that I do?
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  5. #125
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    To be honest, I don't even buy the "healthy foods cost more" argument. There are three reasons. The first is that the average American now eats less at home than they did 20 years ago. In short, we have become fans of snacking. The second is that portion sizes have more than doubled in the same period as obesity rates. The third is that stores like Walmart make it incredibly affordable to buy vegetables and fruits.

    Take-Out Foods, Restaurant Meals Tied to Obesity Trend - Online Medical Encyclopedia - University of Rochester Medical Center
    Portion Sizes and Obesity, News & Events, NHLBI, NIH
    Walmart Wild Oats: America’s largest grocer is rolling out a line of cheap organic food products.

    In short, food has gotten cheaper thanks to stores like Walmart (as much as I hate to admit it). People continue to eat out regularly and more. How can it be more expensive for you to buy a few vegetables at a store and make a basic stir fry? How can it be more expensive to avoid fatty foods that cost $12 a plate then buy fruits for a week for the same prices? Hell, a run to your local farmer's market will net you about 3 weeks worth of apples for $12. So how is it more expensive to simply cook at home and avoid fatty foods? No. It really isn't.



    If you follow the logic of the OP, overweight people - regardless of income - will be charged more for poor lifestyle choices that could easily be curved so the rest of us who do make healthy life choices aren't forced to pay more for them.
    You clearly don't live in the northern parts of your country if you think fresh fruits and vegetables are inexpensive. When a watermelon costs $15 in the winter months, not too many poor people are going to choose it. I eat plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables year round, but here in Toronto, as an example, I pay dearly for anything edible and with any flavour.

    As for changing lifestyles, the very poorest, those most likely to live the way you suggest, are the ones most likely not to pay for their own healthcare so the argument that if they paid more, the rest would pay less, isn't necessarily a logical result.

    I drive a car and never use public transit - should I have to pay for those who do? If you want to play that game, claiming that societal costs should be shouldered mostly by those who access the services, then you've got a long way to go to have that user pay concept actualized.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  6. #126
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan5 View Post
    Some of those aren't preventable.....

    How can you even begin to compare those??? Tells us a lot about your intelligence..
    The question is about the cost of medical care not compassion. Who is the lesser intelligent?

  7. #127
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    They do carry additional policies to cover the risks of their profession.

    Bunge Jumpers and Sky Divers sign a waver. Bad drivers typically pay a lot more for auto insurance.

    These people all pay more for auto insurance.

    Health insurance is the only form of insurance where your life choices and the risks associated with them are typically not accounted for with your premiums. For example, a guy that regularly exercises, eats a whole foods diet, and never smoked, will usually pay the same rate as a guy that is morbidly obese, never exercises, and eats nothing but fast food.

    My profile picture is a picture of me when I finished a 9 mile run in below zero weather. I eat well, am dedicated to my personal fitness, and my physicals and blood work always reflects that, so why should some fat ass that sits around eating crap all day and never exercises pay the same health insurance rate that I do?
    Well, our new policy (Obamacare) is to only rate people by age and whether or not they smoke. Pre-existing conditions are accepted without rate change. Before Obamacare, people who had a myriad pre-existing conditions were either refused coverage, given coverage with exceptions, or their premiums reflected their increased risk. Severely obese people couldn't get individual health insurance at all. Same with high blood pressure, diabetes, etc.

    I'm assuming you're a Republican since this is a Democratic program start to finish? Southern Democrat?

    Or is this Bush's fault, too?
    Last edited by MaggieD; 06-21-14 at 04:00 PM.

  8. #128
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Whether something is medically damaging can often be a matter of degree. An ounce of alcohol a day is beneficial. Also, diabetes is not always lifestyle related.

    Indeed, however an ounce of alcohol a day is not universally beneficial. For some it can be very damaging.

  9. #129
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    But why should someone who lives a healthy lifestyle have to pay for the "freedom" of someone who doesn't?
    Same reason folks without kids have to pay for the education along with those who have kids.

  10. #130
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    Re: Should medically judged fat people pay higher medical costs? [W:87]

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Same reason folks without kids have to pay for the education along with those who have kids.
    Because universal education benefits everyone?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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