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America is or is not a Christian Nation.

Is America a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 26 25.7%
  • No

    Votes: 75 74.3%

  • Total voters
    101
The Bible says gay sex and adultery are both sins. You can believe otherwise if you want.

It says eating pork is a sin. Like homosexuality, that is a ceremonial law. Adultery only becomes a sin when someone is deceived.
 
dude you just freaking quoted Leviticus from the OT in your reply to another poster. Make up your damn mind

"they shall be put to death" - right in your post

besides, these revolting missionaries were employed by Christian groups like American Family Association so take it up with them

Hey - I'm not here to play "Let's Make a Deal." I'm here to tell you what is the deal: Gay sex is an abomination and a sin and according to the New Testament, killing other people for their sins (i.e. mano a mano) is not approved. Capital punishment is only to be meted out by either God (Acts 5) or the government (Romans 13)

Now write that down so you can quote it in the future when referencing my Biblical beliefs on the subject.
 
It says eating pork is a sin. Like homosexuality, that is a ceremonial law. Adultery only becomes a sin when someone is deceived.

So, adultery is okay as long as you're honest about it? (not trying to be a smart-ass, just wondering what your take on that issue is).
 
So, adultery is okay as long as you're honest about it? (not trying to be a smart-ass, just wondering what your take on that issue is).

Yes, for example swingers. They are not deceiving each other, nor are the other participants deceiving anyone. There's nothing immoral about that.
 
If you base your answer on the principles upon which this country was founded, then the United States is not and should not be a "Christian nation".
 
If you base your answer on the principles upon which this country was founded, then the United States is not and should not be a "Christian nation".

We already know the United States Government is secular.
 
I agree....that's why it really is a silly question.

It's only a silly question if one is unable to consider the importance of Christianity and the Bible to US culture.

All you're doing is running to an extreme (theocracy). That's a very weak and intellectually inept or dishonest debate tactic.
 
I agree....that's why it really is a silly question.

No it's not. It would be why it's a silly question to ask "Are we a Christian Nation-State". But the question of "Are we a Christian Nation" is not dependent on whether or not the GOVERNMENT of the State the nation exists within is Christian, Secular, or anything else.
 
No it's not. It would be why it's a silly question to ask "Are we a Christian Nation-State". But the question of "Are we a Christian Nation" is not dependent on whether or not the GOVERNMENT of the State the nation exists within is Christian, Secular, or anything else.

Thats just further silly semantic games. One of the principles that this country was founded on was religious freedom. If you want to play games and say "are the majority of this country Christian?" or whatever fine. But a majority religion does not make a country a "Christian Nation" or a "Muslim Nation" or a "Jewish Nation"....We are not a Christian Nation regardless of what the majority religion might be.
 
Thats just further silly semantic games.

I disagree. It's semantic, but it's legitimate semantic. Words MEAN something. You don't get to misuse a word and then when it gets pointed out just wave it off by going "SILLY SEMANTICS". A Nation, be it speaking of a subset of the population or the entire population within a geographical area and/or State, is not contingent on the GOVERNMENT of that State to mirror that Nation.

The Government mirroring it, or not mirroring it, is a useful tool for arguing in a general sense for/against...but it in no way is the definitive means of determing if it is or isn't accurate. Thus suggesting it's "silly" based SINGULARLY off us being Secular is ridiculous.
 
I disagree. It's semantic, but it's legitimate semantic. Words MEAN something. You don't get to misuse a word and then when it gets pointed out just wave it off by going "SILLY SEMANTICS". A Nation, be it speaking of a subset of the population or the entire population within a geographical area and/or State, is not contingent on the GOVERNMENT of that State to mirror that Nation.

The Government mirroring it, or not mirroring it, is a useful tool for arguing in a general sense for/against...but it in no way is the definitive means of determing if it is or isn't accurate. Thus suggesting it's "silly" based SINGULARLY off us being Secular is ridiculous.

Again...a plurality religion does not make that a country of that plurality. The US by definintion is a multi-cultural, multi-religion country, regardless of the government.
 
Again...a plurality religion does not make that a country of that plurality.

Again, you're arguing against a strawman. I did not make such a suggestion.

My suggest was claiming that our goverment being secular inherently makes it "silly" to suggest the U.S.A. might be a "Christian Nation" is incorrect, as the government of a state does not inherently determine what kind of "nation" one could claim exists within the population.

And ever since saying that you've been hacking away at a strawman of your own creation about plurality of religion and all this other nonsense...no of which deals with my comment relating to your claim regarding a secular government.

If you want to suggest the US is not a Christian Nation because you don't believe the religious views of a majority of the population are enough to constitute declaring it such a thing....that's absolutely fine. I'm not arguing against that. But your claim was that because we're a secular GOVERNMENT it's silly to even suggest we're a Christian Nation, and that is a ridiculous argument.
 
It says eating pork is a sin. Like homosexuality, that is a ceremonial law. Adultery only becomes a sin when someone is deceived.

None of that is correct. Eating pork is a dietary law and the other two items are violations of moral laws.
 
None of that is correct. Eating pork is a dietary law and the other two items are violations of moral laws.

Consensual sex is no more immoral than eating pork. Laws against homosexuality are mere ceremony.
 
Horse manure.

Not one is hurt, taken advantage of or otherwise harmed. Thus, not a moral issue.

Sexual "purity" was ceremony intended to foreshadow Christ, just like other ceremonial laws.
 
Not one is hurt, taken advantage of or otherwise harmed. Thus, not a moral issue.

Sexual "purity" was ceremony intended to foreshadow Christ, just like other ceremonial laws.

I like how these Jewish laws weren't anything Jewish, just the preamble for Christianity. That whole culture only existed in order to produce one person. Doesn't that seem a little arrogant?

As to the actual topic of the OP, what exactly does the term "Christian nation" mean, anyway?
 
I like how these Jewish laws weren't anything Jewish, just the preamble for Christianity. That whole culture only existed in order to produce one person. Doesn't that seem a little arrogant?

Well, however you may feel about that, given the dichotomy of moral and ceremonial laws, laws against homosexuality are certainly ceremonial as no one is harmed.

As to the actual topic of the OP, what exactly does the term "Christian nation" mean, anyway?

I presume it can mean a lot of things, from cultural influence (of which Christianity and the Bible as a tool of communication cannot be denied) to theocracy.
 
Our country SHOULD be a secular country. I think that most of us do not want to live under the rule of ANY religion.
 
Again, you're arguing against a strawman. I did not make such a suggestion.

My suggest was claiming that our goverment being secular inherently makes it "silly" to suggest the U.S.A. might be a "Christian Nation" is incorrect, as the government of a state does not inherently determine what kind of "nation" one could claim exists within the population.

And ever since saying that you've been hacking away at a strawman of your own creation about plurality of religion and all this other nonsense...no of which deals with my comment relating to your claim regarding a secular government.

If you want to suggest the US is not a Christian Nation because you don't believe the religious views of a majority of the population are enough to constitute declaring it such a thing....that's absolutely fine. I'm not arguing against that. But your claim was that because we're a secular GOVERNMENT it's silly to even suggest we're a Christian Nation, and that is a ridiculous argument.

The problem though is that Christian's want America to be a Christian Nation in order to influence the Government to enact laws that coincide with Christian beliefs (abortion, marriage etc). Thus bringing into play the structure of the government being secular.

Countless times I have heard Christians cite their lord as the place where our Rights come from not the Constitution. They believe that our laws where inspired by the bible. That our Government was designed around the bible. They are not just saying that we are a Christian Nation because there is a majority that describe themselves in a poll as Christian, they are claiming that everything that is America government and all is Christian, therefor making this a Christian Nation. They deny the Separation of Church and state claiming that everything that the government does must stand up to Christian principles.

Trying to claim that Christians only claim that our nation is Christian is intellectually dishonest.


"So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God." Gary north

Gary North - Ron Paul curriculum[edit]


Gary North delivering a speech at a barbeque at Ron Paul's home in June 2013
In addition, North offers the Ron Paul Curriculum, a home school online curriculum associated with former U.S. Congressman Ron Paul, which is free for grades K-5 and available to paid members from grades 6–12.[15][16] As Director of Curriculum Development, North has outlined four goals of the educational project: providing a "detailed study" of the "history of liberty"; teaching a "thorough understanding of Austrian economics"; serving as a "an academically rigorous curriculum that is tied to primary source" material rather than textbooks; and teaching "the Biblical principle of self-government and personal responsibility", which North calls "the foundation of the market economy".[17]
Gary North (economist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Our constitution and Bill of Rights is based on Christianity.
 
The problem though is that Christian's want America to be a Christian Nation in order to influence the Government to enact laws that coincide with Christian beliefs (abortion, marriage etc). Thus bringing into play the structure of the government being secular.

Countless times I have heard Christians cite their lord as the place where our Rights come from not the Constitution. They believe that our laws where inspired by the bible. That our Government was designed around the bible. They are not just saying that we are a Christian Nation because there is a majority that describe themselves in a poll as Christian, they are claiming that everything that is America government and all is Christian, therefor making this a Christian Nation. They deny the Separation of Church and state claiming that everything that the government does must stand up to Christian principles.

Trying to claim that Christians only claim that our nation is Christian is intellectually dishonest.


"So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God." Gary north

Gary North - Ron Paul curriculum[edit]


Gary North delivering a speech at a barbeque at Ron Paul's home in June 2013
In addition, North offers the Ron Paul Curriculum, a home school online curriculum associated with former U.S. Congressman Ron Paul, which is free for grades K-5 and available to paid members from grades 6–12.[15][16] As Director of Curriculum Development, North has outlined four goals of the educational project: providing a "detailed study" of the "history of liberty"; teaching a "thorough understanding of Austrian economics"; serving as a "an academically rigorous curriculum that is tied to primary source" material rather than textbooks; and teaching "the Biblical principle of self-government and personal responsibility", which North calls "the foundation of the market economy".[17]
Gary North (economist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


LOL, well to be honest, you would probably want your rights to come from God rather than your government. :mrgreen:
 
LOL, well to be honest, you would probably want your rights to come from God rather than your government. :mrgreen:

That's not necessary.

When the founders wrote "endowed by their Creator" and "self evident", they were referring to a simple understanding. Everyone (extremely rare exceptions based on specific circumstance) wants to live. One cannot deny ones innate desire to live. It is natural, then, to presume that others have the same desire.

Universal (extremely rare exceptions) desires, recognized by society, are socially natural rights. They are not rights derived by imagining man alone with nature, or any kind of individual natural state. After all, rights are a social construct and thereby have no meaning without the existence of the 'other'.

Thus, some rights are natural socially. It doesn't matter if they came from a God or aliens or whatever. The important thing is that we recognize that they are self evident via simple logic and reason.

Other natural rights include freedom of religion and self defense. These are things that everyone desires. These rights are self evident.

Let's remember that when discussing natural rights, we are not discussing rights that arise from a state of nature but rights that arise naturally (self evidently) from society.

My (socially) natural rights are granted by logic and reason and undeniable self evidence.
 
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