• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

America is or is not a Christian Nation.

Is America a Christian Nation?

  • Yes

    Votes: 26 25.7%

  • No

    Votes: 75 74.3%
  • Total voters
    101
In ye olden days, being in a minority religion was a de facto recipe for being oppressed, and I think there are many Christians who feel that if that if their beliefs are not in the oppressing camp then they will through process of elimination be on the business end of that oppression. What they forget though is that the same constitution that protects me from any Christian-themed oppression also protects them from me dissolving them of their rights to practice their faith.
 
Eric7216 said:
There is a world of difference between the admonition about Congress (and it only applied to Congress) making laws establishing religion and people imbued with Christian morality using that morality to argue for Christian type responses on public issues. Not sure that there is any real semantic difference in meaning between a Christian nation and a nation of Christians. It would be nice if only objective and "secular" responses to public issues were incorporated into public policy but that is not the case, nor can it be. As stated in Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (signed by the US and therefore part of US law):
Click to expand...
There is a big difference, a Christian nation would be a theocracy and a dictatorship. A nation that hs Christians in it can be a constitutional republic.
 
Zinthaniel said:
No you said it was common sense, meaning its commonly held piece of information. the poll shows that is not the case. that is not an appeal to popularity, that is evidence that you are wrong in assuming that your stance is a commonly held conclusion.
Click to expand...

Well, it was nice talking to you.
 
CLAX1911 said:
There is a big difference, a Christian nation would be a theocracy and a dictatorship. A nation that hs Christians in it can be a constitutional republic.
Click to expand...

A "nation" describes the people that live within a defined territory. The Cherokee Nation was anything but a theocracy... for example.
 
shrubnose said:
Did you ever hear of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?

I suggest that you read it.
Click to expand...

What part contradicts my argument and how does it contradict my argument. Actually, Freedom of Religion certainly does not since it is not at odds with the majority being Christian, in fact, it backs up my argument. People are free to practice any religion they like without fear of government involvement and the people have chosen mostly Christianity. The majority of Christians make the United States a Christian nation... thank you.
 
CLAX1911 said:
There is a big difference, a Christian nation would be a theocracy and a dictatorship. A nation that hs Christians in it can be a constitutional republic.
Click to expand...
Not sure about that. It could be like the UK, Denmark, or Finland. Or Thailand. All of which have state religions. None of those are theocracies or dictatorships. It would probably continue like now, with some Christians arguing for charity for the poor and the sick and measures against income inequality while other Christians emphasize other themes in the Bible.

http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/rachelmccleary/files/state_religion.pdf
 
FreedomFromAll said:
If one needs to cite a god to be moral then that person is ignorant.
Click to expand...

You are entitled to your opinion...

It also makes me wonder if it wasnt for the bible if Christians would be running around being immoral.
Click to expand...

Obviously there were morals but more importantly, why would you wonder that?

I guess everyone that existed before the bible was written had no morals. And those damn godless non-christians are immoral heathens burn those assholes!
Click to expand...

Put down the Cool Aid and breathe...

The claim that the US is a christian nation isnt a benign assertion that there is a large christian influence throughout American history. It is obvious that there is and has been a large christian populous and influence. By christian nation though the claim is that we virtually have or should have the christian religion in every aspect of our government. The assertion of this being a christian nation means that there wasnt any separation between church and state in the Constitution.
Click to expand...

People are getting their panties all twisted over nothing... a nation is nothing more than the people that live within a defined territory run by a government. The government part is irrelevant. All that IS RELEVANT is the people living within the defined territory. The people living in the USA are mostly Christian. I truly don't see what the problem is with that. It is a fact. I am an atheist and can easily accept this FACT.

Christian deny the Constitutionality of the separation of church and state. They insist that was not what was meant by the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. Christians assert that the meaning was construed and the 1st Amendment really says that god and government are inseparable and it only stands to protect christians.
Click to expand...

Some Christians do... the ones you are referencing. I have never once heard a suggestion or argument that reflects this after having many theocratic and political discussions with some pretty hard core Christians, in fact.

All in all christians are proving the point why there is a wall of separation between church and state, its to keep the fanatics from forcing religion on other people and to avoid what the framers of the Constitution ran from in England.
Click to expand...

Do you have some agenda here? Why do you insist on capitalizing England, the Constitution, the 1st Amendment, the United States.... but not Christians?

...and thanks for the history lesson! :lol:
 
This nation is called so due to the demographic of its FOUNDING (Puritans, refugees, etc). While it does not hold true today and is not today, when this nation was founded it was founded by Christians, but for everyone.
 
rathi said:
Yet you won't admit its a female nation. If majority Christians makes the U.S. a christian nation, majority women makes the U.S. a female nation using the same logic. Funny how you don't seem to apply the same standards when you are the one being excluded.
Click to expand...

It isn't that funny... I don't see 51% compared to 49% being a majority in the sense of defining a nation. A simple majority is disingenuous to the spirit of the argument about what constitutes a "nation" but if it really bothers you that much I would concede that it is a female nation, a white nation... whatever just to satisfy your childish need to make a point.
 
MasterLiberty said:
This nation is called so due to the demographic of its FOUNDING (Puritans, refugees, etc). While it does not hold true today and is not today, when this nation was founded it was founded by Christians, but for everyone.
Click to expand...

Exactly... but what ended up populating the nation was a vast majority of Christians.
 
Zinthaniel said:
Doesn't make the nation christian.
Click to expand...

It may not be Christian but the formers of the nation had some religious ideas and symbols in mind. "In God We Trust" is still used on our currency.


The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:


History of 'In God We Trust'
Click to expand...
 
grip said:
It may not be Christian but the formers of the nation had some religious ideas and symbols in mind. "In God We Trust" is still used on our currency.
Click to expand...
I never denied that.

As we can see in this thread qualities that one believes that define a nation varies from one person to another.
For me a nation is defined by the culture, the actions of it's people, it's media, it's government, etc - all of that tied into one.

I believe that while Christianity did have it's influence on this nation, and this nation could have been at one point accurately described as a Christian nation, our culture today is far removed from Christian beliefs, standards, morality, and it's teachings - So I don't believe it would be accurate to describe this country as Christian Nation. We are so multicultural now and influenced by some many other cultures, peoples, religions, and secularism that we are now different type of nation.
 
Zinthaniel said:
I never denied that.

As we can see in this thread qualities that one believes that define a nation varies from one person to another.
For me a nation is defined by the culture, the actions of it's people, it's media, it's government, etc - all of that tied into one.

I believe that while Christianity did have it's influence on this nation, and this nation could have been at one point accurately described as a Christian nation, our culture today is far removed from Christian beliefs, standards, morality, and it's teachings - So I don't believe it would be accurate to describe this country as Christian Nation. We are so multicultural now and influenced by some many other cultures, peoples, religions, and secularism that we are now different type of nation.
Click to expand...

Except much of our laws and value systems concerning freedom and fairness are derived from ancient religious beliefs. Before laws, the religions of the world were pretty much where society garnered it's morals and codes of conduct. "Thou shalt not kill" was not just a standard pulled from thin air, you shouldn't kill because it's immoral and a divine commandment.

You can disassociate much of today's modern pop culture from religion, but much of civilization has it's foundation built on religious values, and that history can't be disengaged or removed by erroneous claims of atheistic beliefs as the only consideration.
 
grip said:
Except much of our laws and value systems concerning freedom and fairness are derived from ancient religious beliefs. Before laws, the religions of the world were pretty much where society garnered it's morals and codes of conduct. "Thou shalt not kill" was not just a standard pulled from thin air, you shouldn't kill because it's immoral and a divine commandment.

You can disassociate much of today's modern pop culture from religion, but much of civilization has it's foundation built on religious values, and that history can't be disengaged or removed by erroneous claims of atheistic beliefs as the only consideration.
Click to expand...

Well I disagree with you there. Especially with your notion that common principals found in all nations, such as don't kill people, are derivative of Christian teachings. Nor do I believe that Atheist have erroneous beliefs.
 
Zinthaniel said:
Well I disagree with you there. Especially with your notion that common principals found in all nations, such as don't kill people, are derivative of Christian teachings. Nor do I believe that Atheist have erroneous beliefs.
Click to expand...

Most Christian teachings are very good. Even if you might not be religious you cannot deny that fact.
 
It is a nation with Christians, not a Christian Nation.

That is a HUGE distinction in my book.
 
ChrisL said:
Most Christian teachings are very good. Even if you might not be religious you cannot deny that fact.
Click to expand...

I don't deny that some philosophical principals in Christianity are good if not even beautifully written. however I find it very egotistical and false when Christians claim that they taught us not to kill, not to steal, not to do crime as if to think had Christianity not ever existed humans would have no way of discerning what is criminal and what isn't.
 
Zinthaniel said:
I don't deny that some philosophical principals in Christianity are good if not even beautifully written. however I find it very egotistical and false when Christians claim that they taught us not to kill, not to steal, not to do crime as if to think had Christianity not ever existed humans would have no way of discerning what is criminal and what isn't.
Click to expand...

Well, I am of the belief that a lot of man-made religions were "created" to gain control over people. I think that people, back in ancient times, were quite brutal towards one another. I think that's where the saying "put the fear of God into them" comes from actually.
 
Zinthaniel said:
Well I disagree with you there. Especially with your notion that common principals found in all nations, such as don't kill people, are derivative of Christian teachings. Nor do I believe that Atheist have erroneous beliefs.
Click to expand...

I said religions, plural, not just Christianity. And it's not an opinion, it's historical fact. I didn't say Atheists have erroneous beliefs, only that there trying to prove society was developed without religious values is erroneous. Religion in the US is not near as prevalent or socially important as it once was, which I'm not sure is necessarily a good thing. I'm not a fan of 'bible thumpers' or 'religious goody goodies', though I believe their effects on society aren't near as bad as many other activities, except for the fanatics of extremism overseas or some of the brutal, medieval Christian history.. A lot of beneficial charities and rescue missions were religion based, like 'Goodwill' or 'Salvation Army'.

Almost anything in life capable of having a positive impact can have an equal and opposite negative one. Medication can become drugs, social drinks can become alcoholism, food for survival can become morbid obesity, political leadership can become greedy corrupt, incompetent officials, etc etc. To insinuate all religion as a bad influence or non source of positive social effects is either disingenuous or unknowledgeable.
 
Ockham said:
Like saying, "This cup is filled 3/4 of the way with jello, but it's not a cup of jello". Next up: The sky isn't blue. :roll:
Click to expand...

You have it wrong even now. Whether the cup is 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 or completely filled with jello it is indeed a cup of jello. However, it is not a jello cup, which would it was a cup created of jello. It's also a cup of air, maybe whipped cream, sprinkles and whatever else is in the cup. BTW I've seen red skies, orange skies, even seen the green flash once. Oh yeah and star strewn black skies.
 
grip said:
It may not be Christian but the formers of the nation had some religious ideas and symbols in mind. "In God We Trust" is still used on our currency.
Click to expand...

If by "formers" you mean the founding fathers, they had nothing to do with the use of "In God We Trust" on currency.
 
Cardinal said:
If by "formers" you mean the founding fathers, they had nothing to do with the use of "In God We Trust" on currency.
Click to expand...

Formers means from all prior people who had effect. I know the money logo was from a later date in the mid 1800's, that's why I included the link describing it's origin.
 
grip said:
Formers means from all prior people who had effect. I know the money logo was from a later date in the mid 1800's, that's why I included the link describing it's origin.
Click to expand...

Well hell, that would apply to anybody, which makes your point not particularly meaningful.
 
Cardinal said:
Well hell, that would apply to anybody, which makes your point not particularly meaningful.
Click to expand...

I don't know how your ridiculous, fallacy of irrelevance has anything meaningful about it?
 
grip said:
I don't know how your ridiculous, fallacy of irrelevance has anything meaningful about it?
Click to expand...

All you said was basically "there were people from the long-ago-time who put 'In God We Trust' on our currency." You're not only not specifying what authority or basis those people had for doing so, you couldn't even bothered to say who they were. Why even get up in the morning if that's the sort of argument you're going to make?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom