View Poll Results: Is America a Christian Nation?

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  • Yes

    28 25.45%
  • No

    82 74.55%
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Thread: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

  1. #321
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Most of them don't hold up under close scrutiny. For instance, pick your (1) best alleged "contradiction" from the Gospels and let's see if it flys.
    Thou shalt not kill is one of the ten commandments. Also, judge not, lest ye be judged. (LOL, sorry, I'm not real good at "bible" talk).

  2. #322
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I agree, but I still think that was major rationale behind organized religion. I could be wrong, but it makes sense given the times. They wouldn't have had the ability to police large areas.
    I think you're approaching it from entirely too beneficent a perspective. Organizing religion was almost entirely about securing power for a small class of priestly rulers. People don't need laws or gods to know that hurting each other is wrong. We don't want to be hurt, or killed, or stolen from, and we know that others feel exactly the same way. All it takes is a community to protect its members. Every human society that has ever existed, before we even had language, did this. It never needed an enforcement mechanism like the threat of divine punishment to convince people. Regular punishment worked just fine for regular people, and not at all for people who considered themselves above societies, or when one society preyed upon another.

    The idea that religion exists as a means to make people live in harmony, even within a singular community, just doesn't hold up. I do, however, think the world would be a much better place if people started from the positive places you think they do. Maybe someday they will. I certainly hope so.
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  3. #323
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Thou shalt not kill is one of the ten commandments. Also, judge not, lest ye be judged. (LOL, sorry, I'm not real good at "bible" talk).
    I don't see any contradictions in any of that. In the first one, one should not confuse murder with justice. In the second one there's this:

    The Bible – Is it Wrong to Judge? « The Righter Report
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

  4. #324
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    But you certainly need those specifics if this deity is supposed to inform how we should live our lives. The generic idea of a deity or deities is fine, but when someone starts saying that these deities want us to do some things and not do others and submit to specific leaders, then you really need specifics, and evidence of that specific deity's existence.
    But most agnostics are not trying to do those things.
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Thou shalt not kill is one of the ten commandments. Also, judge not, lest ye be judged. (LOL, sorry, I'm not real good at "bible" talk).
    Depends upon the translation. Some versions have "Thou shalt not murder" or "...commit murder". That greatly changes the whole premise of the commandment.
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  6. #326
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Depends upon the translation. Some versions have "Thou shalt not murder" or "...commit murder". That greatly changes the whole premise of the commandment.
    And all the versions are wrong... the true translation from the literal hebrew is "Thou shalt not kill in cold blood (Or without reason)"

  7. #327
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Depends upon the translation. Some versions have "Thou shalt not murder" or "...commit murder". That greatly changes the whole premise of the commandment.
    I've never heard that translation. Yes, everyone tries to play semantics between "murder" (legal in some places only BECAUSE the death penalty exists) and "killing." I'm used to this game.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    I don't see any contradictions in any of that. In the first one, one should not confuse murder with justice. In the second one there's this:

    The Bible – Is it Wrong to Judge? « The Righter Report
    Sorry, I disagree with your translation. I think it's God's job to decide who dies and when. I think it is arrogant of a mere mortal to decide for another whether or not he/she is worthy of life or death. That's only ONE of the reasons why I am opposed to the DP. There are many other logical reasons as well.

  9. #329
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    All this Bible talk is detracting from the point and that is that the USA IS A CHRISTIAN NATION.
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  10. #330
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Well, I am still searching for a secular, objective, rationale for a welfare society that continues to support adults who are unwilling or unable to provide for themselves. The utilitarians believe that the role of government is to provide for the greatest good for the greatest number. That seems secular and somewhat objective. It seems to understand that society should not be overly concerned about the lowest elements of society at the expense of the greater good for the greatest numbers. I read Stiglitz's Price of Inequality and he seem to fall back on religious morality. Obama has stated that he supports measure to make society more equal because the Bible tells him so.
    Remarks by the President at the National Prayer Breakfast | The White House

    FDR understood the wrongness of providing welfare to people and urged work programs. He called that type of charity a narcotic that destroyed the spirit. Sure, I gave an example of Laotian monks but that attitude pervades SE Asia, Central Asia, and southern Africa that charity is small and not meant to provide everything. Blind Laotians offer massages to earn money, for example.
    Franklin D. Roosevelt - State of the Union Address -- 1935

    It is a little offensive when I hear Americans talk about equality. We live in a world in which 2 billion live on less than $2 a day and only the richest 700 million (10%) make more than $15.000 a year. That rich group includes basically all Americans yet some complain about jobs going overseas, ignoring the tremendous improvement in poverty worldwide because of this shift.

    But I digress. I am still looking for some objective, non moralistic, logic for supporting some who seem completely unable or unwilling to support themselves. There are billions in the world who could use those resources better. Greatest good for the greatest number. (And for the longest period of time, as Gifford Pinchot added.)

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