View Poll Results: Is America a Christian Nation?

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  • Yes

    28 25.45%
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    82 74.55%
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Thread: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

  1. #311
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    America is not a "Christian nation", per se, but it was founded on Christian values (for the most part). We have since deviated greatly from said Christian values, though, so I don't think it's an apt comparison today.
    I would contend that most of what you consider "Christian" morals are just human morals. Nearly every culture has had a very similar set of morals, and they have tended to evolve with the times, same as everyone else's.

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You continue to connect the concept of a deity with some need for specifics of a deity. I can concept of a car without having any need to concept it as a Ford or a Chevy or a Honda, or a VW, etc. Agnostics don't have to concept the "make and model" of the deity(s) to concept the possibility of its/their existence.
    But you certainly need those specifics if this deity is supposed to inform how we should live our lives. The generic idea of a deity or deities is fine, but when someone starts saying that these deities want us to do some things and not do others and submit to specific leaders, then you really need specifics, and evidence of that specific deity's existence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paxaeon View Post
    The way I see it, now a days, Christian and Corporate values are one in the same so in a manner of speaking, we might be.
    It's a shame that Christians gave up the idea of usury being a sin. If Christianity was standing up to corporatism, that'd be a pretty big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    I am searching for a non-Christian based logic for expending resources on adults who are unable or unwilling to be self sufficient for extended periods of time.
    Have you really ever met anyone who gave half their money to charity? All three monotheist religions emphasize charity as a noble undertaking. They simply express that value in different ways. Jews are commanded to give often, and especially during the days been Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur. Religious institutions, given their long history of being outside the normal processes of commerce (both in western religion and elsewhere), often took the reins on administering charitable work. They would be supported by the community and didn't need to turn a profit. It's actually pretty socialist if you think about it. Either way, charity is a value that every culture has espoused.

    Also, don't forget about the myriad secular charitable organizations operating today. Secular charities - FreeThoughtPedia

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I don't think the Bible says anything about nice people going to Heaven, though. Righteous people, yes. Maybe the criteria is harsher than we would like to think.
    If mere allegiance is the difference between an eternity of bliss and one of torture, then we are simply slaves to an all-powerful king with no real choices. That's a pretty crappy universe to live in, and a god really unworthy of the worship that he seems intent on forcing out of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Except much of our laws and value systems concerning freedom and fairness are derived from ancient religious beliefs. Before laws, the religions of the world were pretty much where society garnered it's morals and codes of conduct. "Thou shalt not kill" was not just a standard pulled from thin air, you shouldn't kill because it's immoral and a divine commandment.
    There was no time "before laws". Human beings have been making laws for as long we had civilizations. Religion certainly played a part in forming these laws, but it didn't predate them.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well, I am of the belief that a lot of man-made religions were "created" to gain control over people. I think that people, back in ancient times, were quite brutal towards one another. I think that's where the saying "put the fear of God into them" comes from actually.
    That's simply using the threat of unassailable force to make people obey. That mentality was hardly limited to rules that we consider ethical, but likewise to a lot of that brutality. And there's still plenty of brutality in the world today, often in the most religious places.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Is this question about the American people, or the American govt? If it is about the govt, then there actions clearly show that they are not Christian. If it is about the people, then our actions show that we do not stand up for what the FFs set as the foundation of this nation. It was based on Biblical principles, and a thorough understanding of world history. Those who do show themselves to be Christian are referred to as extremists by the vocal minority, who do not believe in the Constitution. Actions are what matter, not words.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Whether politicians are educated is irrelevant, since they have to appease the uneducated bible belt voters. In many cases though, they are very much so. Obama went to harvard and was a chicago law prof for example.
    Don't confuse intelligence with wisdom, which is what you're trying to do with Obama.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Jesus' divinity was debated for centuries (look up Arianism or gnosticism) and in fact is still widely disagreed on by the various sects. Nicaea as with everything tried to make it seem incontrovertible and unanimous, but the gospels are ambiguous. Ex: "Whoever makes a speech against the son of man will be forgiven. But whoever speaks against the holy spirit will not be forgiven." Sure seems like a distinction.
    Once again, you appear as one who has never read the Bible.

    The Deity of Jesus Christ in Scripture « The Righter Report

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    That wasn't what i was saying anyway. "Paul" or whoever wrote Romans, was not Jesus or God or whatever. It's rather curious that for something you consider such a huge deal, the gospels never mentioned either subject. If anything, the gospel Jesus seems like he would not at all support state executions.
    Romans 13, inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16) destroys your argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    "Busting" the resurrection is like trying to prove ET doesn't exist.
    Can't do it, can you? Bust the resurrection, that is. Should be a piece of cake for someone like you - IF you're as knowledgeable as you want us to believe.
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    I would contend that most of what you consider "Christian" morals are just human morals. Nearly every culture has had a very similar set of morals, and they have tended to evolve with the times, same as everyone else's.




    Have you really ever met anyone who gave half their money to charity? All three monotheist religions emphasize charity as a noble undertaking. They simply express that value in different ways. Jews are commanded to give often, and especially during the days been Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur. Religious institutions, given their long history of being outside the normal processes of commerce (both in western religion and elsewhere), often took the reins on administering charitable work. They would be supported by the community and didn't need to turn a profit. It's actually pretty socialist if you think about it. Either way, charity is a value that every culture has espoused..
    I understand the Hamiltonian evolution idea that it is beneficial to help others in of your group. Evolution favors groups who help others in their time of need. But that charity doesn't universally apply to "others" or people different from them.

    There is a lot of similarities between Judaism and Christianity and I understand they both support charity. But they differ, IMHO, in their opinion of wealth. For many in Christianity, wealth is evil. I gave you Biblical stories that teach that. This anti-wealth mentality is not universal. Nor is the emphasis on charity. Yes, there are many who gave away huge sums of money. Warren Buffet and Bill Gates. Andrew Carnegie who divided life into 3 parts-first education, second production/earning, and finally philanthropy and giving that money away. So many museums and national parks are largely do to large donations.

    And you did not answer my question. What stories in Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism. philosophy, etc., equal Christianity in it's anti-wealth emphasis. In my travels, I find that charity in other non-Christian countries, are much more limited. The Buddhist monks in training walk the streets in Luang Prabang, Laos are content with a handful of rice or so given to them in charity. That is their food for the day. I am looking for some non-Christian view that thinks it is OK to allow those who don't work to maintain a lifestyle equivalent to what people who work maintain. Universal charity is closer to simply providing food for the hungry or a blanket for the cold.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    And you did not answer my question. What stories in Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism. philosophy, etc., equal Christianity in it's anti-wealth emphasis. In my travels, I find that charity in other non-Christian countries, are much more limited. The Buddhist monks in training walk the streets in Luang Prabang, Laos are content with a handful of rice or so given to them in charity. That is their food for the day. I am looking for some non-Christian view that thinks it is OK to allow those who don't work to maintain a lifestyle equivalent to what people who work maintain. Universal charity is closer to simply providing food for the hungry or a blanket for the cold.
    I'm not sure why you're citing monks and ascetics as examples of a lack of charity. That's an intentionally chosen lifestyle that includes giving up a lot of earthly things, including a lot of food. Meanwhile, I don't know of any religion that states that those who don't work should live as those who do. Christianity certainly doesn't. The ideal Christian world presented in Revelations explicitly says that everyone will only eat what they themselves grow. Condemning wealth and real egalitarianism are not the same thing. Nor has this condemnation of wealth ever really stopped Christians from hoarding wealth. Christianity felt pretty good about the disparity between lords and serfs in the middle ages, and the incredible wealth of the Catholic church. A lot of American Christians think that it doesn't conflict with their capitalist ideas today. I think you're giving Christianity too much credit over a few parables out of many. The example of that fisherman doesn't contain a command for every Christian to do the same. This would be a whole different conversation if it was and they did.

    Every culture practices charity, and lots of it. And modern secular views move past charity towards true egalitarianism. It's hardly enough to say that the have-nots live on the handouts of the haves. Instead, everyone would be haves. I know of no religion that has ever tired to make that happen or even consider it a good thing.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    The nation isn't Christian than. It contains a huge selection of the world's religions. Based on your statement the nation can only be called a majority Christian nation.
    Since the vast majority is Christian though (80%) I think the term is perfect.

    ... Israel has some Muslims but it is still a Jewish Nation.
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logicman View Post
    Here's some info on that. Take note of Romans chapter 13 in the link below.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1063435600
    Why are there so many, many contradictory statements in the Bible?

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    That's simply using the threat of unassailable force to make people obey. That mentality was hardly limited to rules that we consider ethical, but likewise to a lot of that brutality. And there's still plenty of brutality in the world today, often in the most religious places.
    I agree, but I still think that was major rationale behind organized religion. I could be wrong, but it makes sense given the times. They wouldn't have had the ability to police large areas.

  9. #319
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    A Special thread for Bodhisattva.

    The United States is not a Christian Nation. That is my stance.

    A nation is defined by it's government and it's people - not only by it's majority. To refer to it as A Christian Nation is to falsely represent many Americans.

    Our Country grants freedom for all religions and lack thereof. Grand Cathedrals, churches, Temples, Mosques, and Conventions for Non Believers can be found all over this country. All of which are given equal respect and right to exist.
    Religion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Our Government and thus our laws are entirely secular. There are a vast array of laws that directly contradict the teachings in the bible and thus God's will (i.e. laws regarding homosexuals, divorce, and other things considered blasphemous). Making the term "Christian Nation" ever more strange and obviously misplaced.

    There is no legitimate reason to refer to this Nation as Christian.
    Depends on your definition of "is." Really.

    If you mean do most Americans identify themselves as Christians, I'd say yes. But that's a statistic that can be looked up and is not up for discussion. It is either a fact or not.

    If you mean is the country itself a Christian nation, the answer is no. The founding fathers decreed separation of church and state to avoid just this type of argument. PEOPLE have religions. Countries don't. Some of our founding citizens were escaping religious persecution by countries where the religion and the government were mixed.

    But it doesn't really matter. America's civil rights don't exist to protect the majority. They don't need protection. They exist to protect the minority, whether it's a minority religion or race or ethnicity.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Why are there so many, many contradictory statements in the Bible?
    Most of them don't hold up under close scrutiny. For instance, pick your (1) best alleged "contradiction" from the Gospels and let's see if it flys.
    "Progressives aren't really progressive. They're regressive, all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah." - author unknown

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