View Poll Results: Is America a Christian Nation?

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  • Yes

    28 25.45%
  • No

    82 74.55%
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Thread: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

  1. #231
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    There is no legitimate reason to refer to this Nation as Christian.
    I disagree. There are legitimate arguments to be made as it relates to this, but one who is are unlearned about the realities of certain aspects of Political Science likely would not realize it. Which, understandably, is most of the population (and admittedly most of those who keep calling it a "christian nation")

    My take on this from one of the multitude of other threads asking the same questoin in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Been oft debated on this forum before, but it largely comes down to what way yo'ure using the word "nation".

    Are you using it in the lay person vernacular where "Nation" and "Country" are basically synonyms and mean the government of "The United States of America"? IE "We as a nation seek to protect the world form evil". From that stand point, the answer would be no. The "nation" in this case is a secular one, adhering to no particular religion.

    Are you using it in the other lay person method of using it, where it's referencing the PEOPLE within the United States in a generalized sense. For example, how someone could say "Football is the nation's new passtime." They're not suggesting everyone in the nation likes or watches football, but rather that its the most popular thing of it's category by the citizens of this country. In this case, it would be reasonable to suggest we're a "Christian Nation", just like it's reasonable to suggest that Football is the "nation's sport".

    However, as it relates to the second notion...it's basically an irrelevant one. The fact that the majority of people prefer Football to any other sport doesn't mean the government should somehow reflect that in it's laws. Why? Because regardless of what the majority feel, it's reflecting upon what is essentially a personal opinion/choice of individuals and not a tennet of government. Additionally, notions like this are fickle and able to change through natural means different than the "government" version of the word nation. For example, at one time Football wasn't the "nation's sport", it was baseball.

    Finally, the question would be are you using it in the political science sense, refering to people who share a common language, culture, ethnicity, etc? In that case, it could be argued that there is a large "Christian Nation" (specifically an american one) within the United States. The more accurate way to ask the question, as it relates to peoples normal meaning with it, would be if the USA is a Christian Nation-State. And that's a tricky one, as it depends on ones personal opinion of how much of those within a particular state need to share the common threads necessary to be a nation.

    As it relates to all three of the above...

    From a governmental sense, no we are most certainly not a "Christian Nation". Our government is secular.

    From the "people of the United States" mindset, I think it was absolutely reasonable to suggest America was a "Christian Nation" at the time of the founding and some time after. I still think it's reasonable to possibly make the claim today, but it's a far more tenuous claim as the fervency of the majority is significantly decreased imho. IE, in the past I'd suggest that FAR MORE of those who identified as "Christian" were actively and routinely practicing the religion where as I believe many now consider themselves "Christian" but rarely attend church/actively engage in their faith.

    As it relates to the notion of a "Nation-State", I'm believe that it would be reasonable to suggest in the early days that the United States was a Christian Nation-State. However, I believe it has not been for quite some time as the dominance of a singular religion in the majority has decreased to a significant enough degree in my opinoin, and the prevelence of that religion in the lives of those who follow it has also diminished.

  2. #232
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    O.K.,so we all agree. This is a Christianesque nation.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No. Zithaniel got smacked around in another thread, and this is his protest Well-I'll-Show-YOU thread in response
    I can find the occasional Christian who wants America to literally adopt biblical law. Defining the discussion based on the outliers is why our country is so polarized.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    I always considered us a mostly secular nation. Of course there is some Christian influence perhaps, but a lot of those are just generally accepted principals anyway.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    `
    The way I see it, now a days, Christian and Corporate values are one in the same so in a manner of speaking, we might be.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    This argument relies upon the premise that these morals are Christian in nature and origin. The simple truth is that they are not. Most morals are shared by many religions most of which are as old if not older than Christianity. You brought up Judaism. Christianity has its roots in Judaism which include its morals. Please provide an example of a moral the is strictly Christian in nature and origin.
    The Bible has stories about the rich man going to hell and the poor beggar going to heaven. The idea that a rich man getting into heaven is like a camel going through the eye of the needle. The Bible has a story about the fisherman giving 50% of his catch to the poor. The prodigal son returns after squandering his inheritance and is given more. About the meek inheriting the earth.

    I don't know. Maybe I just have had more exposure to Christian morality due to growing up in the US. (my parents were atheists)
    But I know that Moslems have a requirement of 2.5% (1/40th) of wealth going to charity (not the Bible's 50% donation) but also says that a person's main financial obligations are to his family, not general society. Buddhists believe in karma and presumably believe that if a person achieved some level of wealth perhaps it is due to goodness in prior lives. Hindus don't seem to care much about money-other things are more important. I haven't come across any religion that is as anti-wealth and pro-charity and compassion for the poor and sick as Christianity. I have not come across any philosophy that support such a high level as anti-wealth sentiments and concerns except for philosophies that came from Christian countries and have a Christian background, such as Karl Marx who came from a long line of rabbis and whose parents converted to Protestantism.

    Many views have some notion of charity but Christianity takes it, IMHO, to a different level. The European social welfare state developed in Christian countries and even today the countries that are having the biggest problem maintaining their social welfare state are exactly those countries (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, and Spain) that are the most religious, all Christian, in Europe. The less religious European countries seem to have a more objective and sustainable morality.

    I am searching for a non-Christian based logic for expending resources on adults who are unable or unwilling to be self sufficient for extended periods of time.
    Last edited by Eric7216; 06-20-14 at 12:44 PM. Reason: Added last sentence

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    It seems that, by the standards set by some people here, only a theocracy would qualify as a 'Christian nation'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    There is no legitimate reason to refer to this Nation as Christian.
    Except for the fact that most people hold Christian beliefs...

    A nation's laws are not the only thing that defines its character. The mindset of a citizenry is a far more powerful factor than any law.

  8. #238
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I disagree. There are legitimate arguments to be made as it relates to this, but one who is are unlearned about the realities of certain aspects of Political Science likely would not realize it. Which, understandably, is most of the population (and admittedly most of those who keep calling it a "christian nation")

    My take on this from one of the multitude of other threads asking the same questoin in the past.
    I agree with you and I read your stance prior to making this topic in a different thread. I'm not arguing that this nation was never a Christian Nation, just that it currently is not.
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  9. #239
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Yes, I think the way the majority of Americans live their lives reflects that they do their very best to live by Biblical teachings. But you have to leave the ghetto to see that.
    And this is wrong. Many do not live their lives by Biblical teachings. The problem is that there are several Biblical teachings that are actually quite good and part of a shared morality of the vast majority of people. Just because a person lives their life by some of these principles that are found in the Bible does not mean that every person that is doing this actually is doing it because of the Bible or a Christian belief.

    I can believe killing someone is immoral without believing in the Bible or Christian religion. I can believe that stealing is immoral without believing in the Bible or being Christian. I can believe that adultery (my definition anyway) is immoral without referencing the Bible or Christian philosophy. Christianity did not come up with these principles of morality. They have existed in many cultures throughout history. Christianity, like most religions, simply listed an extensive list of morals that the founders of the religion (and this pretty much goes for any denomination) believe are the morals that God wants us to live by.
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geneke View Post
    It seems that, by the standards set by some people here, only a theocracy would qualify as a 'Christian nation'.

    Except for the fact that most people hold Christian beliefs...

    A nation's laws are not the only thing that defines its character. The mindset of a citizenry is a far more powerful factor than any law.
    Except despite popular belief, our mindset is not united at all, even for those who claim to be Christian. There are something like 41,000 denominations of Christianity, with vastly differing principles espoused by these many denominations. And this wouldn't even include many other religious people nor those who claim no religion. Yet there are many Christians who have a closer mindset to those who claim no religion or who claim a different religion than some of those other Christians, in different denominations.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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