View Poll Results: Is America a Christian Nation?

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Thread: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

  1. #91
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Treaty of Tripoli
    The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripolitania, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796, and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797, and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.
    The treaty was a routine diplomatic agreement but has attracted later attention because the English version included a clause about religion in the United States. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
    Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The Treaty of Tripoli is oft used, perhaps 'misused' in debates on this point.

    Many contend, with reason, the language was put in/massaged to reassure the Muslim Nations that we weren't in a religious war with them.
    Wiki continues on that point/Article 11, beyond your short excerpt:

    Treaty of Tripoli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Article 11 ...

    According to Frank Lambert, Professor of History at Purdue University, the assurances in Article 11 were "intended to allay the fears of the Muslim state by insisting that religion would not govern how the treaty was interpreted and enforced..."

    "..At least one member of Adams' cabinet, Secretary of War James McHenry, is known to have protested the language of article 11, before its ratification.[18]
    A second treaty, the Treaty of Peace and Amity signed on July 4, 1805, superseded the 1796 treaty. The 1805 treaty did Not contain the phrase "not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."[19][20]


    Again, I'm an Atheist, this is a Matter of history and true characterization of this country I am proud has the heritage it does.
    It was the Christian Nations/conscience (UK, France, USA) which brought the principles of democracy and individual rights/freedom to the modern world.
    Last edited by mbig; 06-19-14 at 09:42 PM.
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  2. #92
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    I am Jewish -- I am neither Russian nor an American.

    Most Catholics do not consider Protestants Christian. Most Orthodox Christians do not consider Catholics or Protestant Christian.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Benjamin Rush On the Mode of Education Proper in a Republic
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: 1806
    [T]he only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments.

    Benjamin Rush letter to John Armstrong
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: March 19, 1783
    Without religion, I believe that learning does real mischief to the morals and principles of mankind.

    David Ramsay .Speech to the Assembly at Charlestown
    Categories: Equality, Religion and Morality, Virtue
    Date: 1778
    Our present form of government is every way preferable to the royal one we have lately renounced. It is much more favorable to purity of morals, and better calculated to promote all our important interests . . . . Royal courts are reservoirs, from whence insincerity, hypocrisy, dissimulation, pride, luxury, and extravagance deluge and overwhelm the body of the people. On the other hand, republics are favorable to truth, sincerity, frugality, industry, and simplicity of manners. Equality, the life and soul of commonwealths, cuts off all pretensions to preferment, but those which arise from extraordinary merit.
    John Witherspoon A Sermon Delivered at Public Thanksgiving after Peace
    Categories: Character, Political Leaders, Religion and Morality, Virtue
    Date: Unknown

    Is it reasonable to expect wisdom from the ignorant? Fidelity from the profligate? Assiduity and application to public business from men of a dissipated life? Is it reasonable to commit the management of public revenue to one who has wasted his own patrimony? Those, therefore, who pay no regard to religion and sobriety in the persons whom they send to the legislature of any State are guilty of the greatest absurdity and will soon pay dear for their folly.
    Noah Webster History of the United States
    Categories: Americans / American Character, Character, Political Leaders, Religion and Morality, Republican Government
    Date: Unknown

    [I]f the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted . . . . If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws.
    George Washington First Inaugural Address
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: April 30, 1789
    The foundations of our national policy will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality, and the preeminence of free government be exemplified by all the attributes which can win the affections of its citizens, and command the respect of the world.

    Samuel Adams letter to John Trumbull
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: October 16, 1778
    Religion and good morals are the only solid foundation of public liberty and happiness.
    Benjamin Franklin to Thomas Paine
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: Unknown

    If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?
    John Jay letter to Peter Augustus Jay
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: April 9, 1784
    The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.

    George Washington Farewell Address
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: September 19, 1796
    [W]here is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation deserts the oaths . . . ?

    John Adams Address to First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: October 11, 1798
    We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Thomas Jefferson Westmoreland County Petition
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: November 2, 1785
    Reading, reflection and time have convinced me that the interests of society require the observation of those moral precepts only in which all religions agree.

    George Washington letter to Thomas Nelson
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: August 20, 1778
    The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations.

    George Washington Farewell Address
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: September 19, 1796
    Of all the dispositions and habits which least to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indespensible supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism who should labor to subvert these great Pillars of human happiness - these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in the Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the opposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that National morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

    Benjamin Rush letter to John Adams
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: August 20, 1811
    In such a performance you may lay the foundation of national happiness only in religion, not by leaving it doubtful "whether morals can exist without it," but by asserting that without religion morals are the effects of causes as purely physical as pleasant breezes and fruitful seasons.

    John Adams letter in response to Benjamin Rush
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: August 28, 1811
    [R]eligion and virtue are the only foundations, not of republicanism and of all free government, but of social felicity under all government and in all the combinations of human society.

    Gouverneur Morris letter to George Gordon
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: June 28, 1792
    Religion is the only solid Base of morals and that Morals are the only possible Support of free governments.

    Benjamin Franklin Letter to the Abbes Chalut and Arnoux
    Categories: Liberty / Freedom, Religion and Morality, Virtue
    Date: 1787
    Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom.

    John Adams Letter to Benjamin Rush
    Categories: Religion and Morality, Religious Liberty
    Date: 1812
    Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion.

    Thomas Jefferson Sheridan, Liberty and Virtue
    Categories: Religion and Morality
    Date: Unknown
    The Christian religion, [when] brought to the original purity and simplicity of its benevolent institutor, is a religion of all others most friendly to liberty.

    Thomas Jefferson Draft for a Bill to Establish Religious Freedom in Virginia
    Categories: Human Nature, Religion and Morality, Religious Liberty
    Date: 1779
    Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds; that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible of restraint; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments, or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion.

    Thomas Jefferson A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom
    Categories: Religion and Morality, Religious Liberty
    Date: 1779
    [T]hat the opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency is a dangerous falacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty.

    John Adams Letter to Mercy Warren
    Categories: Government, Religion and Morality
    Date: April 16, 1776
    The form of government which you admire, when its principles are pure is admirable indeed. It is productive of every Thing which is great and excellent among men. But its principles are as easily destroyed as human nature is corrupted. Such a government is only to be supported by pure religion or Austere morals.

    James Madison A Memorial and Remonstrance
    Categories: Religion and Morality, Religious Liberty
    Date: 1785
    Because we hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, "that Religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only be reason and convection, not by force or violence." The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate.
    Last edited by Master PO; 06-19-14 at 09:50 PM.

  5. #95
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    So what would you consider a culture that is 'near the teachings of Christ?'
    Well if the teachings of Christ/the bible are pretty conservative.

    and our a mainstream culture, meaning the culture that is shared and celebrated by the majority, supports singers who hardly wear anything, celebrities who love and support homosexuals & demand, along with the gays, that they all have rights, anyone who bashes homosexuality is dragged through the coals, rappers who rap about sex and thug life and violence, advocacy groups that push from more secularism in the government and are succeeding some cases, we long since have removed prayer from the class room, divorce is a flippant and frivolous procedure, sex is before marriage is not frowned upon and is normal here, etc etc

    Then there is a definite disconnect.
    all of that is supported and accepted in our culture, it's not a "oh we are sinning and will try to change thing," it's a "this is who we are and we are not ashamed of it" thing.

    So when that is the culture here - I don't see how the nation can be called Christian.
    Last edited by Zinthaniel; 06-19-14 at 09:47 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    That doesn't make the nation christian. That 77%'s beliefs are not reflected in our culture as a whole or in our government. The U.S is not a christian nation.
    The government is secular and thus excluded from the argument. Please do not refer to that again. It is a Straw Man.

    Culture is NOT? Are you serious?

    The USA celebrates Christian events and National Holidays: Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving and Halloween.

    Most people participate is Christian style marriages, funerals and burials.

    The list goes on and on...
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  7. #97
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    So you believe that we have laws and a culture that is synonymous to the teachings of christ? Laws that support many things that the bible says "No No" to.

    If you say so.
    The facts say so. There is a difference between the laws of man and the laws of God. That was done purposefully.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #98
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    The government is secular and thus excluded from the argument. Please do not refer to that again. It is a Straw Man.

    Culture is NOT? Are you serious?

    The USA celebrates Christian events and National Holidays: Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving and Halloween.

    Most people participate is Christian style marriages, funerals and burials.

    The list goes on and on...
    All of those things are far removed from their orignial meaning and you know it.

    Where is the easter bunny in the bible?
    Where is Santa Clause? Is in Romans 23?
    Thanksgiving isn't a christian holiday. So uh, yeah.. moving on
    Halloween isn't a christian holiday. Lol. What? Where you trying to sneak those in?

    Many weddings are secular.
    How are funerals a christian invention? Burying the dead predates Christianity.

    Our culture still doers not reflect the teachings of christ. Nor does the population as a whole act by the standards established in the bible. We do the exact opposite.
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    I will go as far as to say, one of the reasons this country is so ****ed up is because of its christian influence and the extremes that this influence takes us.
    Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?
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    Re: America is or is not a Christian Nation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zinthaniel View Post
    All of those things are far removed from their orignial meaning and you know it.

    Where is the easter bunny in the bible?
    Where is Santa Clause? Is in Romans 23?
    Thanksgiving isn't a christian holiday. So uh, yeah.. moving on
    Halloween isn't a christian holiday. Lol. What? Where you trying to sneak those in?

    Many weddings are secular.
    How are funerals a christian invention? Burying the dead predates Christianity.

    Our culture still doers not reflect the teachings of christ. Nor does the population as a whole act by the standards established in the bible. We do the exact opposite.

    thanksgiving......... was a day of giving thanks to GOD

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