View Poll Results: Who is the party of Freedom?

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  • Democrats

    5 11.36%
  • Republicans

    9 20.45%
  • The Free Bacon Party

    13 29.55%
  • Rutabaga

    17 38.64%
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Thread: Who is the Party of freedom?

  1. #81
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You might want to try being more descriptive then, if most people don't understand what you mean.



    In this country, we split power into a lot more than two pieces. We have federal, state, county, and city/town, all with specific areas of governance. We split almost all of those into at least two branches that can check each other. Then we have ascending tiers that can check lower tiers, but have more restricted areas in which they can exercise power. And then we have a judiciary to further check all of those tiers. And the people determine all the officials who make all of those decisions via election (or electing those who appoint them).

    Your notion that there is simply "the people", which you equate to the federal government for some reason, and the states, is very uninformed. Our government has many more pieces and checks and balances than your ideal system, yet you proclaim that splitting power is necessary. Most of the time it simply sounds like you want state governments to have unimpeded control. And, contrary to your assertions, nobody wants to concentrate all power in the federal. A lot of us just don't let the states violate the federal constitution., which includes issues like civil rights.

    So, in conclusion, our government already has everything you want and more. Except for the whole "state supremacy" thing, which would be a terrible idea since states have general police power and the federal is often needed to rein them in when they state trampling on minorities. Which party is it that wants the unchecked states making all the decisions again?



    I thought about the greens, but they're ultimately too small. We really only have two parties. Even a movement like the Tea Party, which aimed to be a third party, has only been able to operate within the Republican party. The Green Party likewise has to operate as a wing of the Democratic party. I certainly wish it weren't the case, but it is.
    The federal government is evil ALEX - ironic considering your avatar -- maybe not so much tho considering in the movie ALEX and his gang run around doing whatever the **** they want like anarchists until the federal government gets their hands on him and then "reform" him into madness and his totalitarian cop friends try to kill him.

    Sounds like a socialist utopia to me.

  2. #82
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Well, I'll be damned..
    Rhubarb....or its a ridiculous question..
    The people here are smarter than the "man on the street", no question.

  3. #83
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    actually i was clear, but you missed it...but that's ok, most people miss it, and here is the part missed........it is the word" FORM"

    democracy was a FORM of government is vile, democracy as a ELEMENT of a republican FORM of government is good, its what the founders created.

    in a republican form the people do not have all direct power via a direct vote, because to give the people all direct power will in time cause tyranny.

    if you give one person all power, he will become a tyrant.

    if you give a few people all power, they will become an oligarchy, and rule the people like serfs.

    if you give the people all power, the will become the "mob" and rule over the 49%

    so you split power into 2 half's...you give the people half, and you give the states half, since power is divided, and not just in 1 set of hands......its not possible to be tyrannical.

    by having power split, it makes it difficult for lobbyist to control government, because the two half's, have their own separate interest.

    the only way legislation can pass congress, the interest of the two half's , have to come together to work in the interest of the people and the states....representing the union as a whole.

    the people are given the house to represent them and their interest and to prevent an aristocracy from taking over America, and the senate elected by the state legislatures is created to prevent democracy from taking over america, because the founders do not want majority rule.

    so you have the people with direct power and the state legislatures with direct power.........and since the states legislature are elected by the people, the people control the senate INDIRECTLY.

    people like Hitler come to power because the people can be seduced, beguiled and lured into things they should not do.....by splitting power it does not matter it the people are seduced beguiled or lured by men who seek power and control,..because the senate in not in the people hands, its in the states hands a different power.

    that different power prevents tyrants or special interest controlling our government.

    divided power is a check and balance of government.........by removing divided power........ special interest has taken over government under many names.
    The democratic republic is evil - it has the means of becoming a totalitarian form of government is evil.... However democracy is the best system of government on the planet.

  4. #84
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    The democratic republic is evil - it has the means of becoming a totalitarian form of government is evil.... However democracy is the best system of government on the planet.
    mr nick, under the founders a democratic republic is an oxymoron....it does not exist....the interpretation of republic since the founders to the modern day has changed...

    america was created on the classical republic of Rome.....the roman republic and america government structure of the founders are the exact same!

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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    mr nick, under the founders a democratic republic is an oxymoron....it does not exist....the interpretation of republic since the founders to the modern day has changed...

    america was created on the classical republic of Rome.....the roman republic and america government structure of the founders are the exact same!
    I understand that.

    I believe in limited direct democracy - for example ballot referendums - like we saw with prop8 which the government absolutely destroyed...

    These politicians are tyrants - our present system of government is tyranny...

  6. #86
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I understand that.

    I believe in limited direct democracy - for example ballot referendums - like we saw with prop8 which the government absolutely destroyed...

    These politicians are tyrants - our present system of government is tyranny...
    well mr nick the founders hated democracy as a form of government, they hate referendum, and initiatives.

    because it leads to majority rule, something unconstitutional under the constitution, but the USSC does not uphold in article 4 section 4

    it is tyranny, because we no longer have a republican form of government.

    you will find it is democratic forms of government.......along if monarchy and oligarchy, which are tyrannical

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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    If you think about it our government is actually ruled by 9 Supreme Court Justices...

    The 535 in Congress can pass whatever the hell they want but when challenged it comes down to 9.

    Our supreme court should be severely expanded - possibly to 101 - and they should not sit for life - they should be democratically elected.

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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well mr nick the founders hated democracy as a form of government, they hate referendum, and initiatives.

    because it leads to majority rule, something unconstitutional under the constitution, but the USSC does not uphold in article 4 section 4

    it is tyranny, because we no longer have a republican form of government.

    you will find it is democratic forms of government.......along if monarchy and oligarchy, which are tyrannical

    What form of democracy are you talking about? direct democracy?

    Some did hate direct democracy because they believed it would lead to absolute anarchy, however I do understand their reasoning in the democratic republic system - however that system has been abused and manipulated in ways they could have never have imagined (gerrymandering for example.)

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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    I believe that the founders and framers believed that the solution to the problems of a democratic republic was the Bill of Rights and never imagined it would have been challenged by our own government.

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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    What form of democracy are you talking about? direct democracy?

    Some did hate direct democracy because they believed it would lead to absolute anarchy, however I do understand their reasoning in the democratic republic system - however that system has been abused and manipulated in ways they could have never have imagined (gerrymandering for example.)
    referendums and initiatives are direct democracy of the people......illegal under the constitution...article 4 section 4.....but not enforced.

    democracy as a form, is a government were the people have all direct power....they vote for the officials.

    in American government of the founders, the house is the only democratic vote...the senate and president are non democratic votes, making america government a republican form, a "mixed government"...federalist 40

    in the founders day, no such thing as a democratic republic existed.......it cannot be

    the term republic mean a roman government.....however after the french revolution [a democratic movement] the french called France a republic......however it was not but , it stuck however and today, republic means today anything other than a monarchy.....because the French threw out the monarchy.

    the people's republic of china, USSR, France a democrat socialist republic...the founders would shake their heads, and are these people stupid!

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