View Poll Results: Who is the party of Freedom?

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  • Democrats

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    9 20.45%
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Thread: Who is the Party of freedom?

  1. #71
    Sage

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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    If you represent real Libertarianism (which you don't), you can keep your BS to yourself. A real Libertarian isn't going to tell someone else how they should be,
    NO, but we can reveal what true freedom is, and expose those apparently who can't take it, as evidenced below. . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    or act, or push their BS on others. You my friend talk to much and the nonsense you vomit out in your posts tell me views like yours give Libertarians a bad name. You'll forgive me if I flush you're views, the scent is a little too thick for my liking.
    Let me make that more clear for the forum: "the scent is a little too pro-freedom for my liking. I like just like war too much, esp. after terrorist attacks on the US."

  2. #72
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What about the Popular Peoples Gay Nazi Save the Whales for Jesus Party?
    The Jesus Party is the GOP or its equivalent--the "libertarian - right" Party--the one that claims to support the Constitution but then likes to ban the construction of privately funded mosques (esp. soon after terrorist attacks on the US).

  3. #73
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    1.. who told you this
    2... who told you this
    3 ... who told you this
    Because support for those 3 things (and others) are what it means to call oneself "Right." If you don't support those things, you'd just call yourself "Libertarian." A genuine Libertarian supports

    1) Open borders (no restriction on hiring or any other voluntary transactions across borders).

    2) No legal liability limits.

    3) National military (or militias) funded solely through voluntary contributions from individuals and private organizations, not taxes or public debt.

    However, that's too much for some folks--it makes them look un-American, so they add the word "Right" to their political affiliation to clarify that they don't want to go that far.

  4. #74
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    Democrats... party of freedom...
    If you were a racial or religious minority, a woman, or gay, you'd certainly think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geneke View Post
    What about the Communist Party of the U.S? Their goal of turning diverse, unequal humans into a grey blocks of concrete equal in every respect seems pretty admirable.
    Too small to make any difference. And, of course, that is no one's goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    I did not say direct democracy...I said [democracy] be it direct or representative, both are vile, and are the roads to socialism.

    Karl Marx- democracy is the road to socialism

    Lenin - democracy is indispensable to socialism

    democracy as a FORM of government is not liberty, it is a very factious run form of government, run by the few and powerful thru the guise "rule of the people".

    lobbyist run our government though the idea of democracy,.....power in only 1

    a republican form of government ...is power in 2, lobbying is more difficult when power is divided.

    democracy is a low form of government, were as republican government is a higher form and more complex.
    So... you don't want people voting at all? If that's not your point, then you're really not making yourself clear. How would these mysterious "power in 2" be chosen?
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  5. #75
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    I prefer the Green Party, but there is no right answer, per se. Voted Free Bacon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    There is no party of freedom. Each party has specific people whose freedom it is trying to enhance at the expense of others. Despite the above libertarian circle-jerk, that party's policies enhance one's freedom in direct proportion to one's economic power. It only creates freedom for the rich. Of the existing parties (there isn't really an American socialist party), Democrats are probably the ones whose platforms would enhance freedom for the greatest number of people, and most of the freedoms they aim to take away are freedoms people shouldn't really want in the first place, like the freedom to pay women less money than men, or the freedom to discriminate against someone in the workplace because they're gay, or the freedom to impose one's religious views on the healthcare system.

    One freedom that the major parties and the supposedly superior libertarians can agree on, though, is the freedom to buy the allegiances of political candidates for their own economic gain.
    How about the Greens? Or Socialism & Liberation? There are plenty of social democratic, socialist, and communist parties here; they are simply kept out of government by the two-party system.

  6. #76
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post






    So... you don't want people voting at all? If that's not your point, then you're really not making yourself clear. How would these mysterious "power in 2" be chosen?

    actually i was clear, but you missed it...but that's ok, most people miss it, and here is the part missed........it is the word" FORM"

    democracy was a FORM of government is vile, democracy as a ELEMENT of a republican FORM of government is good, its what the founders created.

    in a republican form the people do not have all direct power via a direct vote, because to give the people all direct power will in time cause tyranny.

    if you give one person all power, he will become a tyrant.

    if you give a few people all power, they will become an oligarchy, and rule the people like serfs.

    if you give the people all power, the will become the "mob" and rule over the 49%

    so you split power into 2 half's...you give the people half, and you give the states half, since power is divided, and not just in 1 set of hands......its not possible to be tyrannical.

    by having power split, it makes it difficult for lobbyist to control government, because the two half's, have their own separate interest.

    the only way legislation can pass congress, the interest of the two half's , have to come together to work in the interest of the people and the states....representing the union as a whole.

    the people are given the house to represent them and their interest and to prevent an aristocracy from taking over America, and the senate elected by the state legislatures is created to prevent democracy from taking over america, because the founders do not want majority rule.

    so you have the people with direct power and the state legislatures with direct power.........and since the states legislature are elected by the people, the people control the senate INDIRECTLY.

    people like Hitler come to power because the people can be seduced, beguiled and lured into things they should not do.....by splitting power it does not matter it the people are seduced beguiled or lured by men who seek power and control,..because the senate in not in the people hands, its in the states hands a different power.

    that different power prevents tyrants or special interest controlling our government.

    divided power is a check and balance of government.........by removing divided power........ special interest has taken over government under many names.
    Last edited by Master PO; 06-19-14 at 08:39 PM.

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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    That wouldn't be you--a "libertarian right", someone who supports (or consistently votes for pols that support)

    1) Making it illegal for a business in the US to hire anyone he/she wants in the world at any time, regardless of the hiree's residency status.

    2) Shielding oil and coal cos. from liability for the damages they cause, so that they can create more jobs

    3) Waging endless war in the Middle East
    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Because support for those 3 things (and others) are what it means to call oneself "Right." If you don't support those things, you'd just call yourself "Libertarian." A genuine Libertarian supports

    1) Open borders (no restriction on hiring or any other voluntary transactions across borders).

    2) No legal liability limits.

    3) National military (or militias) funded solely through voluntary contributions from individuals and private organizations, not taxes or public debt.

    However, that's too much for some folks--it makes them look un-American, so they add the word "Right" to their political affiliation to clarify that they don't want to go that far.
    1....i do not support open borders, because the have a 1924 law against such action.

    2 ...as a libertarian, property rights are #1, if you damage the property of another person or persons, then law must takes it coarse, and if found guilty, you have to repair the damage/pay.

    3 i don't support American wars for nation building, only when the u.s. is threaten, it people in danger do i support war, and it must be declared by congress.....taxes have nothing to do with the missions government take son.

    libertarian-right for me means.........state powers.

  8. #78
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    actually i was clear, but you missed it...but that's ok, most people miss it, and here is the part missed........it is the word" FORM"
    You might want to try being more descriptive then, if most people don't understand what you mean.

    so you split power into 2 half's...you give the people half, and you give the states half, since power is divided, and not just in 1 set of hands......its not possible to be tyrannical.
    In this country, we split power into a lot more than two pieces. We have federal, state, county, and city/town, all with specific areas of governance. We split almost all of those into at least two branches that can check each other. Then we have ascending tiers that can check lower tiers, but have more restricted areas in which they can exercise power. And then we have a judiciary to further check all of those tiers. And the people determine all the officials who make all of those decisions via election (or electing those who appoint them).

    Your notion that there is simply "the people", which you equate to the federal government for some reason, and the states, is very uninformed. Our government has many more pieces and checks and balances than your ideal system, yet you proclaim that splitting power is necessary. Most of the time it simply sounds like you want state governments to have unimpeded control. And, contrary to your assertions, nobody wants to concentrate all power in the federal. A lot of us just don't let the states violate the federal constitution., which includes issues like civil rights.

    So, in conclusion, our government already has everything you want and more. Except for the whole "state supremacy" thing, which would be a terrible idea since states have general police power and the federal is often needed to rein them in when they state trampling on minorities. Which party is it that wants the unchecked states making all the decisions again?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    I prefer the Green Party, but there is no right answer, per se. Voted Free Bacon.

    How about the Greens? Or Socialism & Liberation? There are plenty of social democratic, socialist, and communist parties here; they are simply kept out of government by the two-party system.
    I thought about the greens, but they're ultimately too small. We really only have two parties. Even a movement like the Tea Party, which aimed to be a third party, has only been able to operate within the Republican party. The Green Party likewise has to operate as a wing of the Democratic party. I certainly wish it weren't the case, but it is.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    After the warning, I couldn't reply in thread. But I did think the topic deserved it's own:






    Of course the only people I've heard say that are hardcore Dems. Just like hard core Repubs will say the Republicans are (cue Nick denying that he's a Republican even though he never says anything but their party line).

    Who is it, then?
    I don't tow the republican party line - democrats just absolutely disgust me with their totalitarian attitude..

    For example they have been attacking republicans for alleged "campaign violations" painting these republicans as evil criminals while they themselves do the same and even WORSE not to mention they're trying to steal an NBA team from an owner because he said some subjective things..... Oh and then you have the Redskins - trying to FORCE a team to change their name...

    Oh and that is what I have only read in the last 15 minutes on the Chicago Tribune.

    Democrats are CRIMINAL - not just sore losers but CRIMINALS....

    Don't confuse my libertarianism and my hate for democrats and progressives with towing a republican line..... I don't like many republicans either but I don't attack on the basis of frugal bull**** and in the name of authoritarian politics.

  10. #80
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    Re: Who is the Party of freedom?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    You might want to try being more descriptive then, if most people don't understand what you mean.



    In this country, we split power into a lot more than two pieces. We have federal, state, county, and city/town, all with specific areas of governance. We split almost all of those into at least two branches that can check each other. Then we have ascending tiers that can check lower tiers, but have more restricted areas in which they can exercise power. And then we have a judiciary to further check all of those tiers. And the people determine all the officials who make all of those decisions via election (or electing those who appoint them).

    Your notion that there is simply "the people", which you equate to the federal government for some reason, and the states, is very uninformed. Our government has many more pieces and checks and balances than your ideal system, yet you proclaim that splitting power is necessary. Most of the time it simply sounds like you want state governments to have unimpeded control. And, contrary to your assertions, nobody wants to concentrate all power in the federal. A lot of us just don't let the states violate the federal constitution., which includes issues like civil rights.

    So, in conclusion, our government already has everything you want and more. Except for the whole "state supremacy" thing, which would be a terrible idea since states have general police power and the federal is often needed to rein them in when they state trampling on minorities. Which party is it that wants the unchecked states making all the decisions again?



    I thought about the greens, but they're ultimately too small. We really only have two parties. Even a movement like the Tea Party, which aimed to be a third party, has only been able to operate within the Republican party. The Green Party likewise has to operate as a wing of the Democratic party. I certainly wish it weren't the case, but it is.
    we split power , but we have federalism also, republican government has many layers of separations, that is why it is a higher form of government and more complex then a democratic form of government.

    we however do not have a true form of republican government, that was done away with the 17th...

    returning to a classical republic of like Rome,the one the founders created, will fix many problems, but not all

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