View Poll Results: Was the Iraq War Worth it?

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  • Yes

    6 6.90%
  • No

    72 82.76%
  • Other

    9 10.34%
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Thread: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

  1. #251
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    if the problem was saddam and his sons, why did we also dismantle the entire baath party and republican guard?
    Because they had been loyal to him for too long. Just like we put the top Nazi's on trial in Germany.

  2. #252
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    You are all over the place here. We didn't have to go to Iraq any more than we had to go to Europe. Neither were a immanent threat to mainland US.
    That said, both dictators had to be stopped. We have put ourselves out there as the worlds police. Once you decide to be the bad boy on the block, you cant back down.
    No, you're just frantically moving goal posts to justify your support of forever war.

    WW II was the last declared war, the last one we truley won. It was the last one with clear goals and a plan to reach them, executed correctly and successfully. Undeclared imperial wars are another beast all together and we don't have a strong record with that.

    We are not the wod's police, we do not need to keep acting like it. That was just a silly aside to again justify your support of forever war.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #253
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That bizarre accusation proves the US is to blame for Saddam committing genocide his second time?

    Do you even realize that in blaming the US you are blaming the victims? You are claiming their actions justified the genocide. If their actions do not justify the genocide, then no one is to blame but Saddam.
    What "bizarre" accusation? That President George H.W. Bush compared Saddam to Hitler and said, "America will not stand aside. The world will not allow the strong to swallow up the weak."
    George Bush Presidential Library and Museum :: Public Papers - 1990 - October

    Or when he said this: "We're dealing with Hitler revisited, a totalitarianism and a brutality that is naked and unprecedented in modern times. And that must not stand. We cannot talk about compromise when you have that kind of behavior going on this very minute. Embassies being starved, people being shot, women being raped -- it is brutal. And I will continue to remind the rest of the world that this must not stand."
    George Bush Presidential Library and Museum :: Public Papers

    Or when he said this: "And there's another way for the bloodshed to stop, and that is for the Iraqi military and the Iraqi people to take matters into their own hands and force Saddam Hussein, the dictator, to step aside, and then comply with the United Nations resolutions and rejoin the family of peace-loving nations. We have no argument with the people of Iraq. Our differences are with that brutal dictator in Baghdad."
    George Bush: Remarks to Raytheon Missile Systems Plant Employees in Andover, Massachusetts

    Or when he said this: "In my own view I've always said that it would be -- that the Iraqi people should put him aside, and that would facilitate the resolution of all these problems that exist and certainly would facilitate the acceptance of Iraq back into the family of peace-loving nations."
    George Bush: The President's News Conference on the Persian Gulf Conflict

    Or the C.I.A. sponsored Voice of Free Iraq which called for Iraqis to overthrow Saddam.
    Washingtonpost.com: Iraq Report
    Kurd Gives Account Of Broadcasts to Iraq Linked to the C.I.A. - NYTimes.com

    Though we warned Saddam not to do it, he nevertheless used chemical weapons against the rebelling Iraqis.
    AFTER THE WAR - Intelligence - U.S. WARNS IRAQIS AGAINST USING GAS TO END REBELLION - NYTimes.com
    https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/...004/chap5.html


    Now, let's see the ecofarm special handwave.

  4. #254
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    No, you're just frantically moving goal posts to justify your support of forever war.

    WW II was the last declared war, the last one we truley won. It was the last one with clear goals and a plan to reach them, executed correctly and successfully. Undeclared imperial wars are another beast all together and we don't have a strong record with that.

    We are not the wod's police, we do not need to keep acting like it. That was just a silly aside to again justify your support of forever war.
    Support for the war, please. Quote me supporting the war like you think I support the war. Just because something had to be done, don't mean I like it or worse love it.

  5. #255
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Support for the war, please. Quote me supporting the war like you think I support the war. Just because something had to be done, don't mean I like it or worse love it.
    If you feel it had to be done, then you support the actions. Duh.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  6. #256
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    If you feel it had to be done, then you support the actions. Duh.
    Its called "to a point". That point passed when Saddam and his sons were dead.

  7. #257
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    He may or may not have had WMDs in the normal sense, but he did kill thousands of people within his country.
    He did ignore around 20 UN resolutions.
    He did sent a hit out on Bush the senior.
    Many believe he gave aid to Al Queda.
    Those things by themselves were enough to do what we did, but should have only been enough to dethrone him and make sure his sons didn't take power. Period.
    Not stay a few more years and build a new government and nation.
    I agree that any reasonable person believed he had WMDs.After all this is a man who not only used WMDs once but more than a dozen times, he did ignore 20 UN resolutions he did give the impression he had WMDs.Any one who argues otherwise is a ****en retarded moronic partisan hack who belongs in the same category as birthers, truffers, Lee Harvey Oswald didn't shoot JFK, big foot believers and other conspiracy believing retards. That said all we did was make Iraq worse and waste American lives and money. Yeah Saddam killed thousands of people, but how is that any different than any other dictatorship across the world?
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #258
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    There was.

    WMD: How it went wrong | World news | The Observer
    "'There were dissenting views, analysts who were right. But the dissenters were pushed to the side.'.. It is a claim corroborated by former CIA anti-terrorism expert Larry Johnson. 'I know for certain that there were analysts in the Defence Intelligence Agency and the State Department and the CIA who took an alternative point of view. Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and ultimately George Bush chose to ignore their cautions. Worst-case scenarios were being taken by policy makers who were picking and choosing intelligence,' he said."
    There was two actual noted dissents within the IC, and that was that the DOE and the CIA disagreed over the nature of the building materials being ordered by Saddam - with the CIA saying that they were parts for centrifuges and the DOE saying they weren't sure. The nuclear program that tied to was the most contentious - and the one where any of the allies dissented. Biological and Chemical were pretty much shared - in fact, the Germans gave us the greatest amount of information that turned out to be false on the Bio program. Additionally, the INR tacked on a footnote that they believed that the surety levels were overstated. Furthermore, CT wasn't part of the WMD debate.

    Feel free to ignore the fact that your "facts" are not facts.
    Here's a fact for you: We found two tons of enriched uranium in a nuclear facility.

    Here's one a bit more recent: Isis jihadists seize Saddam Hussein's chemical weapons stockpile.

    Ruh-Roh.



    Hey, remember a couple of years ago when Syria first started circling the drain how crazy ole cpwill was saying maybe we should send in some SF strike teams to secure and remove all that crap scattered around this area, or at least destroy it? Man, I am so glad we didn't listen to that guy.

    In the meantime, your response is that we dismissed a member of Saddam's inner circle who saying something that could help out his boss? I mean - um, duh? Heck, I can use the fact that Cheney said that Bush made the right decision to prove that invading Iraq was a good call using that logic. There is also nothing wrong with the NSA wiretapping program, and no one in the administration has ever abused their powers - I mean, Jay Carney said so, right? Heck, the Iraqi information minister swearing there were no American troops in Iraq is credible by that reasoning.


    But again. Feel free to read the actual post-mortem. Mind you, I don't think you will - it would destroy a narrative that is just too emotionally rewarding. But one day you might be more interested in complicated, messy ground-truth, and when that comes, look up Robert Jervis.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-19-14 at 08:19 PM.

  9. #259
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    In hindsight, our intelligence isn't so intelligent, is it.
    No. They were wrong. That's one of the things about probabilities - you can always be wrong.

    About the only intelligence I have ever believed in my life span was the photos taken from a US spy plane depicting missile installations in Cuba, which I believed are truthful. Since then intelligence from other sources, other than the USA could be construed as being doctored or inaccurate.
    You do not believe any information from non-US sources? Or any other intelligence whatsoever - say, for example, the intel that said that UBL was in Abbottabad?

    I'd imagine that most people might appreciate more accuracy and definition of evidence.
    Information comes from multiple source streams - HUMINT, MASINT, IMINT, SIGINT, GEOINT, even good ole OSINT and heck, if you want to talk about some particularly tightly shaped programs, RUMINT. That is turned into Intelligence through the Processing and Analysis, and then given to decision makers to reduce their uncertainty.

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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I agree that any reasonable person believed he had WMDs.After all this is a man who not only used WMDs once but more than a dozen times, he did ignore 20 UN resolutions he did give the impression he had WMDs.Any one who argues otherwise is a ****en retarded moronic partisan hack who belongs in the same category as birthers, truffers, Lee Harvey Oswald didn't shoot JFK, big foot believers and other conspiracy believing retards. That said all we did was make Iraq worse and waste American lives and money. Yeah Saddam killed thousands of people, but how is that any different than any other dictatorship across the world?
    He put himself on the radar and on the wrong side of alot of the wrong people when he invaded Kuwait.

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