View Poll Results: Was the Iraq War Worth it?

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  • Yes

    6 6.90%
  • No

    72 82.76%
  • Other

    9 10.34%
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Thread: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

  1. #221
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Unfortunately, we really NEED to go back and in a fairly strong fashion. If we lose control of that region now, it'll much harder to regain back later.

    Our other option is to let the ME go to ruin, drill/pump oil and gas at full capacity from the American continent and beef up our defenses against future terror attacks.
    Good points. But some of the military people who are much smarter than I, (or anyone else here,) advise against going back in so I suppose the latter option you suggest would be the wiser option.

    PS... Your avatar RULES! Pink Floyd is God.

    I dedicate this to all our esteemed neocon colleagues here that are always up for a good ol' military conflict.

    Last edited by Captain America; 06-19-14 at 03:36 PM.

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  2. #222
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There was known endgame. Surrender of the enemy state. Is that somehow surprising to you? There's no enemy state here though, no plan to get to the end, no end in sight. Just stupid peoe making stupid choices and killing thousands of Americans and spending trillions of dollars in the process. But terrorist supporters don't care about dead Americans.
    That is a plan, not an end game. We had no idea if we would win.

  3. #223
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Using your logic, you're saying we should invade North Korea and Iran too, they do the same thing. Boy, you sure do like wars.
    Not what I said at all. Not even close.

  4. #224
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Not what I said at all. Not even close.
    Sure it is, you claimed Iraq was ok to go after cause they were burning our flags and threatening us. North Korea and Iran have been doing that for years. Your logic is flawed seriously.

  5. #225
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    That is a plan, not an end game. We had no idea if we would win.
    That is what end game means, the conditions under which we would win. We knew what end game was, developed a competent plan to get there, executed. And we won in far less time than we've been fighting this quagmire. There's a reason why haven't had a clean "war" or "victory" since WW II; it was the last time we declared war and had to think about ending a war.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  6. #226
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    The Iraq War will go down in history as a long, painful episode of pathetic and misguided decision making by the elite that rules over us.

  7. #227
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    You have my permission to get on over there right now and do whatever that you feel needs to be done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Good points. But some of the military people who are much smarter than I, (or anyone else here,) advise against going back in so I suppose the latter option you suggest would be the wiser option.

    PS... Your avatar RULES! Pink Floyd is God.

    I dedicate this to all our esteemed neocon colleagues here that are always up for a good ol' military conflict.


    Obama is already on it. He just announced they're sending 300 advisers, with other assets -F/18's flying off the Carrier group gathering intel and scaring the sand gnats off the ISIL. The problem with propping up Maliki again is that the whole region will crumble without continued support.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  8. #228
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The Bush administration certainly did listen to what they wanted to hear. However, what they wanted to hear was also what was available. Had there been serious dissent within the Intelligence Community over whether or not Saddam had WMD,
    There was.


    WMD: How it went wrong | World news | The Observer
    "'There were dissenting views, analysts who were right. But the dissenters were pushed to the side.'.. It is a claim corroborated by former CIA anti-terrorism expert Larry Johnson. 'I know for certain that there were analysts in the Defence Intelligence Agency and the State Department and the CIA who took an alternative point of view. Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and ultimately George Bush chose to ignore their cautions. Worst-case scenarios were being taken by policy makers who were picking and choosing intelligence,' he said."


    Doubts, dissent stripped from public version of Iraq assessment | Iraq Intelligence | McClatchy DC
    "The public version of the U.S. intelligence community's key prewar assessment of Iraq's illicit arms programs was stripped of dissenting opinions, warnings of insufficient information and doubts about deposed dictator Saddam Hussein's intentions, a review of the document and its once-classified version shows.

    Bush knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction - Salon.com
    "On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam’s inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again."

    CIA and MI6 were told Iraq had no active WMDs: Report - Economic Times
    "Two senior Iraqi politicians told Western intelligence that Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction (WMD) on the eve of the US-led invasion in 2003 but their warnings were ignored and then not reported to the subsequent Butler inquiry, a BBC Panorama documentary has claimed."



    or had we had serious dissent with our key allies on that issue,
    We did.
    "French intelligence services did not come up with the same alarming assessment of Iraq and WMD as did the Britain and the United States. “According to secret agents at the DGSE, Saddam’s Iraq does not represent any kind of nuclear threat at this timeIt [the French assessment] contradicts the CIA’s analysis”5 French spies said that the Iraqi nuclear threat claimed by the United States was a “phony threat.”
    Institute for Science and International Security › ISIS Reports › Iraq › U.S. Allies Were Not Persuaded By U.S. Assertions on Iraq WMD


    But as far as what was available, that did not happen.
    Yes it did.


    Yes, yes we did. Feel free to read the relevant NIE, or, if you like, a post-mortem of the analytic process that went into that assessment by the guy who did the CIA's post-mortem for the failure to anticipate the Iranian revolution in 1979 and is, himself, a bit of a left-leaning anti-Bush academic.
    Feel free to ignore the fact that your "facts" are not facts.


  9. #229
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The Bush administration certainly did listen to what they wanted to hear. However, what they wanted to hear was also what was available. Had there been serious dissent within the Intelligence Community over whether or not Saddam had WMD, or had we had serious dissent with our key allies on that issue, and he had still made an uncritical case - then yeah, you could accuse him of cherry picking, and he might very well have. The administration was (like our current one) self-reinforcing in its assumptions. But as far as what was available, that did not happen.



    Yes, yes we did. Feel free to read the relevant NIE, or, if you like, a post-mortem of the analytic process that went into that assessment by the guy who did the CIA's post-mortem for the failure to anticipate the Iranian revolution in 1979 and is, himself, a bit of a left-leaning anti-Bush academic.
    In hindsight, our intelligence isn't so intelligent, is it.

    About the only intelligence I have ever believed in my life span was the photos taken from a US spy plane depicting missile installations in Cuba, which I believed are truthful. Since then intelligence from other sources, other than the USA could be construed as being doctored or inaccurate.

    I'd imagine that most people might appreciate more accuracy and definition of evidence.

  10. #230
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    Re: Was the Iraq War "Worth it"

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Obama is already on it. He just announced they're sending 300 advisers, with other assets -F/18's flying off the Carrier group gathering intel and scaring the sand gnats off the ISIL.
    The problem with propping up Maliki again is that the whole region will crumble without continued support.



    And that will likely never change.

    The whole Iraq situation reminds me of a Merry-go-round without a stop switch that needs a lot of maintenance work.

    It's going to be mighty hard to patch that up without shutting it down and doing a total re-build.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 06-19-14 at 03:59 PM.

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