• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Has Obama cut a deal with Lois Lerner ???

Was Lerner told to remain silent and no matter what she'll be pardoned by Obama?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • No!

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • If not she's an idiot!

    Votes: 3 30.0%

  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .
Gain or not, criminal charges do not go away. The question is will there be enough evidence of a conspiracy to file criminal charges. Whether or not Obama is in office or not is irrelevant.

I don't think there will be. The worst thing I believe that will come out of this is a claim of incompetency, but not criminal charges.
 
It seems to me that a sensible course would be to wait until Obama's term has ended, and a new President and a new administration is in place, and then begin an earnest investigation, with an Attorney General who isn't loyal to Obama, and with a President who isn't going to simply hand out pardons to anyone who is implicated by that investigation.

The coverup itself is so blatant, at this point, that even if what is being covered up cannot be proven, it appears that a proper and unobstructed investigation will, at the very least, produce sufficient evidence to bring criminal charges and prison time against whomever can be proven to be complicit in the coverup itself—and this could very well include Ms. Lerner and even Mr Obama himself.
It is indeed outrageously blatant and in your face obvious_

In fact; it is so blatant and obvious that I believe their desperate attempt to cover-up could be used in a court of law as circumstantial evidence to convict at least Lois Lerner; who would then likely cut a deal to be a witness against her cohorts in exchange for a reduced prison sentence_

This is an extremely serious crime and I absolutely believe it is important that Lerner go to prison, at least for a couple years_

There will be no investigation after Obama is gone. The GOP isn't dumb and doesn't want to start that as a precedent.
This is without doubt a crime of political corruption which is why it absolutely demands that justice be served_

A crime so grossly egregious that it should never be allowed to be forgotten until real justice is exacted from the guilty which is absolutely necessary to restore America's faith and trust in government_

A message must be sent that government oppression and suppression of American Citizens will absolutely not be tolerated!

Government must obey and enforce our laws and be accountable regardless of political affiliation!
 
If there were criminal charges, it will not go anywhere. It depends on how much can be found out and if there was a conspiracy which I gotta say, looks very likely given the amount of obfuscation and lies being told about these emails.

That is the whole point, it will never get to criminal charges. And once Obama is gone there sure won't be any.
 
This is without doubt a crime of political corruption which is why it absolutely demands that justice be served_

A crime so grossly egregious that it should never be allowed to be forgotten until real justice is exacted from the guilty which is absolutely necessary to restore America's faith and trust in government_

A message must be sent that government oppression and suppression of American Citizens will absolutely not be tolerated!

Government must obey and enforce our laws and be accountable regardless of political affiliation!

I edited your post to only address your response to me.

That being said what crime was committed?

At best the IRS used poor judgement and had too few resources to do a job that they were tasked to do.
 
That is the whole point, it will never get to criminal charges. And once Obama is gone there sure won't be any.

And it will never get to criminal charges because the conspiracy is covered up too well or because there is no conspiracy?
 
That is the whole point, it will never get to criminal charges. And once Obama is gone there sure won't be any.

So one of the most powerful government agencies in the United States may have been used as a political tool, and destroyed evidence, but since it's going to take too long to get the bottom of things, it's "nothing to see here boys, move along."

Stunning.
 
I don't know how to answer this without more information. That said, I'm really unsympathetic with people trying to apply for tax exemptions for political groups, while waving political motivations in the face of the IRS. So this scandal doesn't 'do it' for me.

Would it do it for you if it had been the Bush administration utilizing the IRS to suppress and stall applications for not-for-profit status of progressive/liberal/statist/political class/leftist organizations? If the pretext for that was that such organizations MIGHT be wanting such status improperly?

Can you honestly say you wouldn't be screaming rage if seven different computers had mysteriously crashed in the midst of the scandal and those running the computers were taking the Fifth and Bush himself was portraying it as a 'phony scandal'? And most recently it is reported that the key person's hard drive was recycled i.e. destroyed, so it couldn't be examined at the same time?
 
So one of the most powerful government agencies in the United States may have been used as a political tool, and destroyed evidence, but since it's going to take too long to get the bottom of things, it's "nothing to see here boys, move along."

Stunning.

Maybe. But once a new Administration comes in, scandals of the past just disappear.
 
hope and change replaced with secrecy and plausible deniability.

what a joke of an administration.
 
Yeah.... okay.

I have seen no evidence of a conspiracy. The IRS was told do something then when they did it people got upset. Did the IRS break some of their own rules... yes. But a conspiracy? Not seeing it.
 
I have seen no evidence of a conspiracy. The IRS was told do something then when they did it people got upset. Did the IRS break some of their own rules... yes. But a conspiracy? Not seeing it.

That's because your wearing partisan blinders. Any reasonable person would review the evidence and statements by the IRS so far critically and know that such statements are extraordinary and deserve additional investigation. "The dog ate my homework" might be acceptable to you with the blinders, but is not acceptable to reasonable people.
 
That's because your wearing partisan blinders. Any reasonable person would review the evidence and statements by the IRS so far critically and know that such statements are extraordinary and deserve additional investigation. "The dog ate my homework" might be acceptable to you with the blinders, but is not acceptable to reasonable people.

I have never worked for the IRS but was at the VA for a little over a year. The idea of the government recycling a hard drive and losing those emails is completely believable. Don't under estimate the insanity of government proceedures.

But for there to be a conspiracy, I need hard proof. And the 24000 emails already released doesn't show me a conspiracy. And thinking there has to be a smoking gun in the lost emails is just wishful thinking.
 
I have never worked for the IRS but was at the VA for a little over a year. The idea of the government recycling a hard drive and losing those emails is completely believable. Don't under estimate the insanity of government proceedures.
Not when the Federal Goverment networks and servers keep and monitor every single IP address on that network. Not believable at all.

But for there to be a conspiracy, I need hard proof. And the 24000 emails already released doesn't show me a conspiracy. And thinking there has to be a smoking gun in the lost emails is just wishful thinking.
Of course you need hard proof, you'll probably dispute the hard proof even if provided again, because ideologically you're supporting a political party above common sense or reality. :shrug:
 
Not when the Federal Goverment networks and servers keep and monitor every single IP address on that network. Not believable at all.

Of course you need hard proof, you'll probably dispute the hard proof even if provided again, because ideologically you're supporting a political party above common sense or reality. :shrug:


That is the whole point. The emails in question were stored for 6 months, then destroyed. The hard drive that is in question supposedly crashed and was recycled. So this is 2014, the emails in question were from more then 6 months ago are gone. The only thing that is bothersome is that the hard copies are gone... But is there isn't anything overly damning in the first 24000 released.

But let's say you had those emails in hard copy, what if there isn't anything that proves your conspiracy? You just going to keep digging until you find something? How long do you dig till you admit there isn't anything there?
 
That is the whole point. The emails in question were stored for 6 months, then destroyed.
Which is illegal. Emails are required to be held for years, not months on the servers and if they were deleted.... we have a the gun and the smoke is right behind.

The hard drive that is in question supposedly crashed and was recycled. So this is 2014, the emails in question were from more then 6 months ago are gone. The only thing that is bothersome is that the hard copies are gone... But is there isn't anything overly damning in the first 24000 released.
Hard drives are irrelevant. Bothersome?

You're wanting people to believe that all six of the people who are involved ALL had their hard drives irreperably damaged. All emails on the servers have been deleted (illegally perhaps). All hard copies were destroyed. And all this is a big "oopsie". :lamo Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

But let's say you had those emails in hard copy, what if there isn't anything that proves your conspiracy? You just going to keep digging until you find something? How long do you dig till you admit there isn't anything there?
It would depend on the content of those emails.
 
I have seen no evidence of a conspiracy. The IRS was told do something then when they did it people got upset. Did the IRS break some of their own rules... yes. But a conspiracy? Not seeing it.

More than one party agreeing among themselves to commit a criminal act is the definition of a conspiracy in the most formal sense.
 
I have never worked for the IRS but was at the VA for a little over a year. The idea of the government recycling a hard drive and losing those emails is completely believable. Don't under estimate the insanity of government proceedures.

But for there to be a conspiracy, I need hard proof. And the 24000 emails already released doesn't show me a conspiracy. And thinking there has to be a smoking gun in the lost emails is just wishful thinking.

Yes, just as there was nothing suspicious about the missing 18 minutes of tape in the Watergate hearings, right? If you were guilty as sin and ordered to turn over all the e-mails, would you be tempted to swamp them with non controversial e-mails but sort of forget to include those that would condemn you? Would you be tempted to see that incriminating evidence sort of disappeared? How plausible is it that seven different IRS employees amazingly had computer hard drive failures at the very same time during the presumed scandal and that the hard drive would be destroyed at the same time? And for some reason those particular computers hadn't been backed up when everybody elses was?

How much coincidence is tolerable before it begins to be implausible?
 
Which is illegal. Emails are required to be held for years, not months on the servers and if they were deleted.... we have a the gun and the smoke is right behind.

Hard drives are irrelevant. Bothersome?

You're wanting people to believe that all six of the people who are involved ALL had their hard drives irreperably damaged. All emails on the servers have been deleted (illegally perhaps). All hard copies were destroyed. And all this is a big "oopsie". :lamo Wanna buy a bridge in Brooklyn?

It would depend on the content of those emails.



The electronic copies of the emails is irrelevant. The hard copies I can understand people being upset about. But from what I have seen, at best this was an error by the IRS, to say that Obama had a hand in this or the Dems had a hand in it is a huge stretch.
 
Yes, just as there was nothing suspicious about the missing 18 minutes of tape in the Watergate hearings, right? If you were guilty as sin and ordered to turn over all the e-mails, would you be tempted to swamp them with non controversial e-mails but sort of forget to include those that would condemn you? Would you be tempted to see that incriminating evidence sort of disappeared? How plausible is it that seven different IRS employees amazingly had computer hard drive failures at the very same time during the presumed scandal and that the hard drive would be destroyed at the same time? And for some reason those particular computers hadn't been backed up when everybody elses was?

How much coincidence is tolerable before it begins to be implausible?

Coincidence is just that. I look for causality.
I also think that if someone did what you think they did, they wouldn't be dumb enough to use an IRS email address. Even the Christie bridge-gate staffers used non state emails.
 
Back
Top Bottom