Has Obama cut a deal with Lois Lerner ???

voyager1 said:

Could have serious consquences.... for both parties.

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One hopes that is true.

voyager1 said:

The electronic copies of the emails is irrelevant. The hard copies I can understand people being upset about. But from what I have seen, at best this was an error by the IRS, to say that Obama had a hand in this or the Dems had a hand in it is a huge stretch.

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It's obvious, not a stretch. The breadcrumbs are all lined up ... the only people buying this are blind partisans or those in denial. :shrug:

voyager1 said:

I edited your post to only address your response to me.

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I'm fine with that as long as your "edit" doesn't confuse the original meaning or alter the intent of my words_ eace

That being said what crime was committed?

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How about we start Lerner off with the charges of Perjury and Evidence Tampering just to let her know we mean business_

Then we can get really nasty by hitting her with Public Corruption; Color of Law Abuses; and Civil Rights Violations_

Public Corruption:
FBI — Public Corruption a Top Priority
Why It’s Our #1 Criminal Priority
Public corruption is a breach of trust by federal, state, or local officials—
Question: Why is public corruption so high on the FBI’s list of investigative priorities?
Answer: Because of its impact. Corrupt public officials undermine our country’s national security, our overall safety, the public trust, and confidence in the U.S. government, wasting billions of dollars along the way. This corruption can tarnish virtually every aspect of society. For example, a border official might take a bribe, knowingly or unknowingly letting in a truck containing weapons of mass destruction. Or corrupt state legislators could cast deciding votes on a bill providing funding or other benefits to a company for the wrong reasons. Or at the local level, a building inspector might be paid to overlook some bad wiring, which could cause a deadly fire down the road.

Color of Law Abuses:
FBI — Color of Law
U.S. law enforcement officers and other officials like judges, prosecutors, and security guards have been given tremendous power by local, state, and federal government agencies—authority they must have to enforce the law and ensure justice in our country. These powers include the authority to detain and arrest suspects, to search and seize property, to bring criminal charges, to make rulings in court, and to use deadly force in certain situations.
Preventing abuse of this authority, however, is equally necessary to the health of our nation’s democracy. That’s why it’s a federal crime for anyone acting under “color of law” willfully to deprive or conspire to deprive a person of a right protected by the Constitution or U.S. law. “Color of law” simply means that the person is using authority given to him or her by a local, state, or federal government agency.

Federal Civil Rights Statutes:
FBI — Federal Statutes
Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241/Conspiracy Against Rights
Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242/Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law
Title 18, U.S.C., Section 245/Federally Protected Activities

I'm sure there's a number of other crimes these government workers can be charged with but I'm really hoping that a guilty verdict would free the guilty parties up for personal lawsuits so that their victims might be made whole and the ex-IRS employees be made eligible for public housing and food stamps after they're released from prison_

At best the IRS used poor judgement

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ie; These corrupt lowlifes will receive the usual punishment reserved for government employees which is an extended paid vacation_

Sorry Voyager, but it's not considered "poor judgement" unless they are actually charged, convicted, and sentenced for their crimes_

Without which the IRS will continue on it's present course of power abuse and We The People will continue to be at their mercy_

I will continue emailing my Congress Rep and Senators twice a week demanding Lerner's head on a dirty platter till this is resolved_

and had too few resources to do a job that they were tasked to do.

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The IRS is far from strapped for resources which is obvious by their very generous salaries, benefits, bonuses, and perks_

voyager1 said:

The electronic copies of the emails is irrelevant. The hard copies I can understand people being upset about. But from what I have seen, at best this was an error by the IRS, to say that Obama had a hand in this or the Dems had a hand in it is a huge stretch.

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"Means, Motive, and Opportunity are the three aspects of a crime that must be established before guilt can be determined"
(this is a quote but I don't remember where I read it so; oh well)

The "means" refers to having access to the tool, knowledge or expertise to plan and/or perpetrate any particular crime in question_

As with all crimes the usual suspects are people with likely "motives" which translates to anyone who might benefit from the crime_

Then it must be determined which of those suspects had "opportunity" which in this case requires someone with access and power_

When means, motive and opportunity been discovered; it's usually not too difficult to determine who the guilty party is likely to be_

From everything that's been reported, the IRS has reaped no benefit from this crime which indicates that it has no apparent "motive"_

But the IRS does have the unique ability of "opportunity" which makes it the perfect "means" for someone that does have a "motive"_

The person with a "motive" would of course have to be someone of sufficient access and power to influence the highest ranks of the IRS_

Although it's possible some over-zealous IRS employees took it upon themselves to eliminate a few obstacles to their beloved Obama_

But it's quite obvious that Attorney General Eric Holder is on board with the IRS which leads me to believe this must go a little higher up_

IMO; it's either the top dog Obama or several Democrat members of Congress and/or Senate or possibly even the whole corrupt bunch_

Wow. Who needs a judicial system....

Ockham said:

It's obvious, not a stretch. The breadcrumbs are all lined up ... the only people buying this are blind partisans or those in denial. :shrug:

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Obvious. Name names at the IRS, Treasury or even the Democratic Party. Show your evidence....

voyager1 said:

Obvious.

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Yep obvious.

voyager1 said:

Name names at the IRS, Treasury or even the Democratic Party. Show your evidence....

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I think they're starting that this morning. Watch C-Span. I must admit, you defending "The dog ate my homework" and asking for evidence is precious. :lamo

Ockham said:

Yep obvious.

I think they're starting that this morning. Watch C-Span. I must admit, you defending "The dog ate my homework" and asking for evidence is precious. :lamo

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If they name names then I reserve the right to change my mind. But I am not going to convict a person, persons or agency based no evidence OR the lack of evidence being the evidence. They way some are acting about this, reminds me of the far left on George Zimmerman. He was guilty, just because the mob wished it.

voyager1 said:

If they name names then I reserve the right to change my mind. But I am not going to convict a person, persons or agency based no evidence OR the lack of evidence being the evidence. They way some are acting about this, reminds me of the far left on George Zimmerman. He was guilty, just because the mob wished it.

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Here's the difference with Zimmerman... Zimmermans gun didn't mysteriously disappear, pictures of Zimmerman didn't mysteriously disappear, the phone call records and recordings that Zimmerman made to the police didn't mysteriously get erased from every known device or blamed on "computer crashes", and the autopsy reports didn't suddenly disappear. If they had, my guess is tin foil hats would still be in fashion and now your trying to convince.... I don't know who, certainly not me.... that this is all just a very coincidental and common happenstance of events where all connection to the IRS and any outside government group was erased, removed, thrown away or destroyed. AKA - 'The dog ate my homework'. :shrug:

Props for defending the politically indefensible but really - it's starting to sound like you actually believe it.

Ockham said:

Here's the difference with Zimmerman... Zimmermans gun didn't mysteriously disappear, pictures of Zimmerman didn't mysteriously disappear, the phone call records and recordings that Zimmerman made to the police didn't mysteriously get erased from every known device or blamed on "computer crashes", and the autopsy reports didn't suddenly disappear. If they had, my guess is tin foil hats would still be in fashion and now your trying to convince.... I don't know who, certainly not me.... that this is all just a very coincidental and common happenstance of events where all connection to the IRS and any outside government group was erased, removed, thrown away or destroyed. AKA - 'The dog ate my homework'. :shrug:

Props for defending the politically indefensible but really - it's starting to sound like you actually believe it.

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I never said that anything disappeared in the Zimmerman case, I said the far left mob wished Zimmerman guilty. Lois Lerner is guilty because the far right wishes it. Just two sides of the same coin. Sad thing is had the GOP given Lerner immunity y'all might actually know if anything happened. Recall she was the first IRS official to say what happened, the GOP went after her and she clammed up.

voyager1 said:

I never said that anything disappeared in the Zimmerman case, I said the far left mob wished Zimmerman guilty.

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I never claimed you said anything disappeared in the Zimmerman case, I used a common action called an "analogy" to demonstrate what you are believing and applying it to the Zimmerman case.

voyager1 said:

Lois Lerner is guilty because the far right wishes it.

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This now has gone beyond Lois Lerner and now potentially implicates others in a cover up.

voyager1 said:

Just two sides of the same coin. Sad thing is had the GOP given Lerner immunity y'all might actually know if anything happened. Recall she was the first IRS official to say what happened, the GOP went after her and she clammed up.

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Immunity is always on the table unless someone has taken it off but the purpose of this thread was specific and contrary to providing immunity which was asking has Lois Lerner cut a deal with Obama such that she would not need immunity.

If there was a deal on the table, she wouldn't be taking the 5th because there'd be no need to.

Empirica said:

AOL.com Article - Lawmakers: IRS lost more emails in tea party probe
AOL
By Stephen Ohlemacher
WASHINGTON (AP) --
"The Internal Revenue Service has lost more emails connected to the tea party investigation, congressional investigators said Tuesday.
The IRS said last Friday it had lost an untold number of emails when Lois Lerner's computer crashed in 2011. Lerner used to head the division that handles applications for tax-exempt status.
On Tuesday, two key lawmakers said the IRS has also lost emails from six additional IRS workers whose computers crashed. Among them was Nikole Flax, who was chief of staff to Lerner's boss, then-deputy commissioner Steven Miller."

These people don't appear to care in the least bit how obviously ridiculous their excuses are_

Has anyone ever wondered why Lois Lerner has remained so loyal to Barack Obama with such insurmountable evidence continuously building against her every time she opens her mouth? :unsure13:

Presidential Pardon?

Maybe Congress should let this play out till after Obama leaves office?!

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lerner is loyal to the democratic establishment. her roots are from 20 years ago and the clinton administration.

rocket88 said:

If there was a deal on the table, she wouldn't be taking the 5th because there'd be no need to.

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This. One of the reasons I am not buying a lot of what the GOP puts out on this. Give Lerner immunity and if there is something criminal it will probably come out.

Ockham said:

This now has gone beyond Lois Lerner and now potentially implicates others in a cover up.

Immunity is always on the table unless someone has taken it off but the purpose of this thread was specific and contrary to providing immunity which was asking has Lois Lerner cut a deal with Obama such that she would not need immunity.

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The Obama Presidency and the IRS scandal are very unusual cases_

First we have a powerful IRS government agency controlled by liberals that is widely feared yet has itself never known fear_

And a shady scrupulous narcissistic President Obama in his 6th year in office propped up by a friendly supportive press and media_

Who appointed himself a very loyal like-minded Attorney General Holder who condones and supports his corrupt Administration_

Obama flaunts his contempt for the law knowing that short of beheading a baby on prime time; he has carte blanche immunity_

The IRS investigatees are aware of these things and will not be easily convinced that their best shot at immunity is to betray Obama_

I don't even know if it's possible to get a independent council appointed to investigate the IRS with Eric Holder at the helm of the DOJ_

Congress may have to break new ground to create loopholes that will allow them to circumvent the built-in protection of the Presidency_

It obviously never occurred to the framers of the system that such flagrant corruption would ever find it's way into the Executive Office_

rocket88 said:

If there was a deal on the table, she wouldn't be taking the 5th because there'd be no need to.

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Wrong! Lois Lerner waltzing into a Congressional investigation and spilling the beans is a definite deal breaker_

After all, the deal is totally dependent on Lerner's silence in exchange for Obama's pardon; should it go that far_

mtm1963 said:

lerner is loyal to the democratic establishment. her roots are from 20 years ago and the clinton administration.

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A person's loyalty shifts to their self when they're facing a lengthy prison sentence_

voyager1 said:

This. One of the reasons I am not buying a lot of what the GOP puts out on this. Give Lerner immunity and if there is something criminal it will probably come out.

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For that to happen, a determined Independent Council with an effective head prosecutor is needed that can make a case and charge Lerner with a crime, while convincing her that Congressional immunity is a better deal than Obama's promise of a pardon_

And Obama does have quite a reputation for kicking people under the bus_

voyager1 said:

This. One of the reasons I am not buying a lot of what the GOP puts out on this. Give Lerner immunity and if there is something criminal it will probably come out.

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If at all possible, I would be more in favor of a reduced sentence than immunity_

I would hate to see Lerner walk__she reeks of evil!

she took the 5th for the administration too.