View Poll Results: Is it justifiable?

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Thread: Open carry question [W:46]

  1. #21
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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I think it would depend entirely on how the patron carried the rifle.
    American, for once I can agree with you.
    This is clearly a "stand your ground" issue .
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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    no... it's murder
    not if he's pointing it--
    you folks call it "stand your ground" in Florida .
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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    why should the store owner have his "rights" infringed upon by you 2A "rights" people pushing your "rights" too far ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    the store owner has to read the person..... a person with no intent to commit a crime will not show himself to be a threat.

    simply open-carrying a gun does not equate to a threat.
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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    not if he's pointing it--
    you folks call it "stand your ground" in Florida .
    i'm not in Florida....

    why are you assuming a person that does not intent to commit a crime would carry the rifle in a threatening manner ( which is a crime in and of itself, thereby negating the whole "does not intend to commit a crime " argument put forth by the OP.)

    of course, i'm making an assumption that a person who does not intent to commit a crime would carry their firearm in the correct legal manner.... but my assumption is more in tune with reality than yours.

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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    why should the store owner have his "rights" infringed upon by you 2A "rights" people pushing your "rights" too far ?
    his rights are not infringed in any manner whatsoever by anyone simply carrying a firearm.

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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    his rights are not infringed in any manner whatsoever by anyone simply carrying a firearm.
    especially when he gets shot by the dude without being able to get to his gun--another 11 on a 10 scale from the 2A -
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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    i'm not in Florida....
    but you know about it so why deflect??

    why are you assuming a person that does not intent to commit a crime would carry the rifle in a threatening manner
    How do you know he doesn't intend to commit a crime??
    Incredible that the level of discussion is now protecting rifle-carriers in open..
    ..( which is a crime in and of itself, thereby negating the whole "does not intend to commit a crime " argument put forth by the OP.)
    Who is around to deal with this crime you speak of--the store owner would be dead??
    of course, i'm making an assumption that a person who does not intent to commit a crime would carry their firearm in the correct legal manner.... but my assumption is more in tune with reality than yours.
    Not at all--and classic for you to end with an incorrect slam .
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  8. #28
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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    There's no more reason to believe an open carry is about to attack you than a person driving a car nearby.
    Only a very small percent of Americans walk around openly carrying an assault weapon every where they go. A store owner will see countless cars pull up, park, then leave in the course of a day. So there is no reasonable expectation on their part that any one of those car owners intends to use that vehicle as a weapon. However, that same store owner may never see someone walk into their store openly brandishing a gun. If and when that does occur, it is perfectly reasonable for them to assume that individual may intend to do them harm as the vast, vast majority of gun owners do not walk into stores, bars, and restaurants with a rifle hanging over their shoulder.

    I grew up in a family of avid hunters. We always had a house full of guns. Go to my dad's house during deer season and to get anything out of the deep freeze half the time you got to move a 7mag and a couple of shot guns off the lid first. We had guns sitting between us in the truck seat for damn near half the year, never one time did we ever walk into a store carrying one.
    Last edited by SouthernDemocrat; 06-17-14 at 10:13 PM.
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  9. #29
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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Only a very small percent of Americans walk around openly carrying an assault weapon every where they go. A store owner will see countless cars pull up, park, then leave in the course of a day. So there is no reasonable expectation on their part that any one of those car owners intends to use that vehicle as a weapon. However, that same store owner may never see someone walk into their store openly brandishing a gun. If and when that does occur, it is perfectly reasonable for them to assume that individual may intend to do them harm as the vast, vast majority of gun owners do not walk into stores, bars, and restaurants with a rifle hanging over their shoulder.
    It is not "perfectly reasonable" to presume someone intends to do harm just because they open carry and such is rare. It's paranoid.

  10. #30
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    re: Open carry question [W:46]

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    If the rifle was shouldered, it's murder. If the patron were holding it in his hands, it might not be murder.


    Way way way back in the days of dinosaurs, when I rode a T-rex to the State Police Academy, we were told that if the muzzle of a held firearm moves to within 45 degrees of a threatening direction, we were allowed to construe that as a threat... IF the totality of the circumstances added up to an imminent threat.

    Again, like the "fire triangle", there's an Assault triangle...

    Ability
    Opportunity
    Intent/Jeopardy behavior.

    A person standing there with a firearm not pointed at you, who has not otherwise communicated threat towards you, has Ability and Opportunity but has not yet shown Intent... unless he's done something else like break in through the window, or some such.

    Now if open carry was illegal or the store was posted against same, you'd have a better case, since his open carry constituted an illegal act in itself. If it is legal, not so much.


    But I will say this... if a guy walked in my store with a long gun at "low ready"... well sir he'd better watch himself reaaaaaaaaallllly careful... because if that muzzle twitches in my direction it's boom time.


    On a shoulder sling, or in a case, or held in a non-firing position is entirely different of course.

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