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Open carry question [W:46]

Is it justifiable?

  • yes

    Votes: 10 30.3%

  • no

    Votes: 23 69.7%
  • Total voters
    33
99percenter said:
So the owner has to wait until the dude shoots him effectively not being able to defend himself?
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What's keeping the person carrying concealed from doing the same thing?

They are basicly law abiding citizens....obeying the law.

WHat's to stop the guy parking outside from driving right thru the front window, killing people in the store, hooking up a cable to the ATM, and driving off? (It happens, but do people piss their pants when someone drives up out front?)
 
NIMBY said:
He is standing his ground and reading that "type" of body language.
Of course he is .
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Carrying an assault rifle constitutes a certain 'type' of body language? How so?

Does my carrying a purse constitute a certain type of body language? A cell phone? A banana? Nunchucks?
 
NIMBY said:
why should the store owner have his "rights" infringed upon by you 2A "rights" people pushing your "rights" too far ?
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That doesnt mean he can shoot him....he can ask him to leave.

You have to believe in a lethal threat or gross bodily harm to use lethal force.

If he's just infringing on your property rights, you ask him to leave or have him charged with trespassing.
 
NIMBY said:
especially when he gets shot by the dude without being able to get to his gun--another 11 on a 10 scale from the 2A -
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It's just about perception. It's no different from the many more people that enter his business carrying concealed...he has no such 'warning' from them either. Less really.
 
NIMBY said:
so store owner must first before action can be taken--just wow--

look who's talking out of whose--though I won't repeat your word coming next:

so when you are clearly wrong, you resort to this "gun forum" 2A talk -
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I dont get it...why is there the assumption that someone carrying a rifle plans to use it? Isnt that a little obvious?

I have never actually heard of a crime committed by someone carrying a rifle, casually going into a business in a non-threatening manner.

The spree killers walk in and start shooting, period. Too late for you either way. Unless you plan on shooting people open carrying as they walk thru your door?
 
NIMBY said:
Who are you insinuating that those very few idiots are, since Goshin "lokes" that post?
Doers every American store-owner have the onus on him to know what you think your "rights" are when you open-carry a rifle into his store ?
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The laws pertaining to businesses and guns is different in every state....and vary greatly. It is indeed the responsibility of the business owner to know the laws that pertain to guns & businesse in his state, esp. if he or or she is concerned about it. In some states, ignoring the signage only constitutes trespassing, in others it carries the force of law for a felony. In others that signage must use explicit, exact legal wording provided by the state, and/or be posted in specific places and heights near entrances.
 
NIMBY said:
so now you want everyone to live in your vigilant world--no thanks.

-
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Please see my signature, in blue, for the answer to that.

You seem to be asking other people to be accommodating you and your feelings, rather than taking personal responsibility for their own safety.
 
NIMBY said:
As soon as one of you open-carry rifle-toters walks in a store,
watch the customers flee, while the store-owner must now go for his gun just in case.
Another extreme gift from those bastardizing the 2A .
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As business owner, it's ALWAYS your responsibility to provide good service and a positive environment for customers.

So you see someone open carrying, then you address them, "hey, how's it going today? What are you looking for? That's a nice AK, got one myself.....yada yada yada."

YOu would do it for lots of other questionable customers, wouldnt you? "Hey, leave the skate board outside or carry it in here...what is that model? My kid rides over at the park on Main St...do you know him? Tod Smith....yada yada yada."
 
99percenter said:
Nope bad analogy. See a car is for driving and a gun is for shooting. Big difference.
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How so? Despite purpose, cars contribute to alot more deaths.

The fact that many are unintentional does not make me feel more safe around them. But they are indeed used as weapon too.
 
99percenter said:
Are you seriously that dense? The store owner doesn't know. All he knows is that the guy has a gun.
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And yet feels unrealistically safe when many more people carry concealed in the store?
 
Jesse Booth said:
If I expect to be murdered soon, there's no way in hell I'm going out in public unarmed. If I could prove that my life was in danger, I would most likely put myself into police custody, assuming staying home and fortifying my position as best I could isn't an option. And last time I checked, I wasn't arguing against this law - just voicing concern over whether or not one should just walk around with an assault rifle for no reason.
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If I thought I 'needed' a gun, I wouldnt go there, period.

I carry a firearm the way I carry a cell phone...because you never know when you will need it.

(I hate talking on my cell phone. I forced myself for yrs to make it a habit. A very worthwhile one it so happens.)
 
NIMBY said:
Therefore, no store-owner is safe if the open-carry rifle-toter has an agenda to kill.
Looks like we're heading back to Dodge City.
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If that is their plan, they are criminals planning a crime, not citizens open carrying. Those are 2 very different things.

But few criminals telegraph their intentions...they prefer the safety of ambush and surprise. The 2 do not look the same...and people have provided details and images here for you already.
 
I say, anyone who carries his rifle into a store needs to be shot just on general principles.
Jackass.
 
Jesse Booth said:
I'm not afraid of guns either, but I can't stress enough that this is about how much you can trust the average American's judgement. Keep in mind, a lot of them still think Obama's a good president! I personally don't trust a stranger's mental health any further than I can throw them; and considering how fat some Americans are, that's not very far.
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You drive on the roads with them every day, dont you? So I agree with you, I DONT trust their judgement and consider myself at risk everytime I drive or walk on the street. It's an assumed risk, isnt it? I dont see anyone saying they dont drive or limit their driving because of it.

I actually do. I do not just jump back in the car to get the milk I forgot. I would NEVER casually allow my kid in other people's cars without a better knowlege of those people. I fear every day the idiot texting.

We accept those risks almost without question...but not guns. It's matter of perception, not reality.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Yes, but like the vast, vast, vast majority of gun owners, I do not walk into businesses carrying a gun for everyone to see. Similarly, I don't walk into churches and yell obscenities even though I enjoy freedom of expression.
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Is there a difference in risk to people if the gun is openly carried or concealed? Cuz lots are cc'ing. And again...no blood running in the streets.

You see open carry an an overtly aggressive and rude act....because you compare it to someone committing an aggressive and rude act in a church. THere is no such intent open carrying...altho some are making political statements. The motive is different than the idiot acting intentionally in a church.
 
99percenter said:
If a dude walks into a store with an assault rifle with no intention to commit a crime and the store owner shoots him is that justifiable homicide?
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Depends.. Does said "dude" have the assault rifle in his hands in a ready to shoot position or is it just slung over his shoulder?

If he had it in his hands readied I would say that it is justifiable homicide. If he just had it on his person then no, of course not. But this is why we have rules to prevent people from carrying assault rifles into stores so that if you are a store owner, and you see someone walk into your store with an assault rifle, you know they mean to harm you.
 
99percenter said:
How is the store owner supposed to know?
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Carrying a gun does not make you a murderer. If the person shows aggression and draws or cocks his weapon, then by all means blow him away. Just shooting someone because you don't like guns is murder.
 
NIMBY said:
why should the store owner have his "rights" infringed upon by you 2A "rights" people pushing your "rights" too far ?
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Since when has the rights of the store owner mattered to you? If the subject was say, a baker who didn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding, are you still worried about the rights of the store owner?
 
NIMBY said:
zero store-owners should ever be put through the "open-carrying-of-a-rifle" gun rules set down by Goshin in post #35 .
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You need to stop being so emotional.
 
99percenter said:
If a dude walks into a store with an assault rifle with no intention to commit a crime and the store owner shoots him is that justifiable homicide?
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Maybe, or maybe not. It would depend heavily on the other circumstances involved. If the guy just walked into the store carrying a gun, then no, it wouldn't be justifiable homicide. If there were other factors that reasonably would make the owner fear for his life, then yes, it would be justifiable, regardless of what the man with the gun's intentions were.
 
Lursa said:
Is there a difference in risk to people if the gun is openly carried or concealed? Cuz lots are cc'ing. And again...no blood running in the streets.

You see open carry an an overtly aggressive and rude act....because you compare it to someone committing an aggressive and rude act in a church. THere is no such intent open carrying...altho some are making political statements. The motive is different than the idiot acting intentionally in a church.
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Yes, they are making a political statement by walking into the local Kwik-E-Mart with an Ar-15 and scaring the living sh** out of Apu behind the counter... :roll:
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Yes, they are making a political statement by walking into the local Kwik-E-Mart with an Ar-15 and scaring the living sh** out of Apu behind the counter...
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Every single one? You know that?

Mind-reading....it's not just for fiction anymore!
 
99percenter said:
If a dude walks into a store with an assault rifle with no intention to commit a crime and the store owner shoots him is that justifiable homicide?
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If the weapon is being properly carried as define by the state they are in. For example in Washington long guns must be slung on the back. Than the weapon is not be brandish and their for as the courts have ruled you can no assume that person is up to no good.
 
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