View Poll Results: Who would you rather have as president?

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  • Hillary Clinton

    19 32.20%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    40 67.80%
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Thread: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton[W:336]

  1. #381
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton[W:336]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Who would you rather have as president?
    Lol !

    I thought this thread was about who was a bigger liar.

    President ?

    Uhm no. They're both horrible choices.

  2. #382
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton[W:336]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Lol !

    I thought this thread was about who was a bigger liar.
    Well Hillary is the bigger liar simply because of the volume of material over a 40 year period and time she's been in the public eye.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #383
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Progressives still want to stay in the closet with that one eh?
    I recognize I have some socialist leanings, but I hardly think the fact that I don't think banks should be investing the average person's money and speculating with it, or that I don't think we should go to war with Libya, make me a socialist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Is that what socialists call for or is that what communists call for? Do you know which is which?
    Yes, I recognize the distinctions between socialism and communism, and the many forms of each. Look at the platforms of some democratic socialist parties, like The Left in Germany, and you'll see them calling for the abolition of private property rights.

  4. #384
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    I recognize I have some socialist leanings, but I hardly think the fact that I don't think banks should be investing the average person's money and speculating with it, or that I don't think we should go to war with Libya, make me a socialist.
    You misunderstand. I'm not commenting on your socialist leanings, just Warrens.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #385
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You misunderstand. I'm not commenting on your socialist leanings, just Warrens.
    What exactly do you consider about Warren to be socialistic in nature? I recognize she's not a die-hard-capitalist, but a lot of what Warren calls for is regulations, which socialists would consider inadequate and demand nationalization instead.

  6. #386
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    What exactly do you consider about Warren to be socialistic in nature? I recognize she's not a die-hard-capitalist, but a lot of what Warren calls for is regulations, which socialists would consider inadequate and demand nationalization instead.
    Much of this. Elizabeth Warren on the Issues

    What really told me I wouldn't like her policies was the "You didn't build it" message. That's quickly becoming a classic.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  7. #387
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Much of this. Elizabeth Warren on the Issues

    What really told me I wouldn't like her policies was the "You didn't build it" message. That's quickly becoming a classic.
    I don't find that to be socialistic at all. "Hard-core liberal" is her ideological description, and as ideologies, liberalism and socialism are incompatible.

    On the individual issues she states progressive, sometimes moderate viewpoints.

    Abortion: Fully pro-choice, pro-funding, pro-birth control. This isn't a socialist position. One can support legal abortion with or without being a socialist.

    Women's issues: Supporting equal pay for equal work by gender, funding for domestic violence victims, etc. These are mainstream positions.

    LGBT Rights: This has no relevance to one's support or opposition to socialism.

    Sex Ed: Same as LGBT rights.

    Healthcare: She supports the ACA. Not only is this not a socialist position, it's an anti-socialist position. Bailing out the health insurance industry, as opposed to guaranteeing healthcare as a right, is not anything someone left of center should support.

    Social Security: Opposing privatization of social security and the chained CPI is a mainstream position.

    Education: "Focus on public schools." Interpret this as you wish, but it isn't proof that she is a socialist.

    Animal Rights: I'm not sure why upgrading infrastructure is listed under this, but improvements to infrastructure is a mainstream position as well. Environmentalism (protecting our ecosystem) does not automatically mean socialism.

    Gun control: She supports it, while famous socialist Eugene Debs opposed any restrictions on gun ownership for the common man. This is not a socialist position.

    Taxes: She supports increases to the tax rate for the wealthy. This depends entirely on the rate she suggests, but I'm fairly confident she isn't arguing for 90% or higher.

    Immigration: Not relevant to socialism.

    Free trade: Protect rights of workers and the environment. This is fairly ambiguous, but doesn't sound like total socialism.

    Military: Supports reduced spending.

    Afghanistan: Get out.

    Renewable Energy: Supportive.

    Marijuana: Opposes legalization.

    Supports consumer protection regulations.

    None of this screams socialism to me.

    And what exactly in this says "you didn't build it."?

  8. #388
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Ah, I see. Out of all of the links, you only focused on the one that was a testimony from a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, which is of course a Progressive group that promotes Progressive ideas and candidates. Miller, who testified, is a politician who was instrumental in the creation of the CFPB and who shares Warren's views that homeowners who made stupid decisions did so because they were victims of the banks. Miller, as we all know, is not impartial.

    Keep in mind my post when I gave you those links:

    I'll ask again. Do you know what the CFPB is? Do you know what Dodd-Frank is, and how it interacts with the CFPB which is the agency that will enforce DF?

    Okay, here's a link for you since you don't want to do research yourself. I posted a great link from CBS News a few pages back. Here are some more for you.



    Those links were to help you understand what the CFPB is, and how Dodd-Frank relies on the CFPB to enforce the law. I'm not a partisan so I provide links from all points of view, from experts to bankers to both leans. You only honed in on the one from the ultra, ultra left lean, the man who was part of the creation of the CFPB.

    Got it.
    That was the only link that gave specifics. The ones from the banking industry used nothing but scare tactics....no facts and just predictions. GIGO

  9. #389
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    That was the only link that gave specifics. The ones from the banking industry used nothing but scare tactics....no facts and just predictions. GIGO
    Specifics? Now that's funny.

    Like this specific:

    Community banks were generally not guilty of some of the worst abuses of the last decade, and community banks remain more constrained by reputational concerns than are the biggest banks. But community bankers are not incapable of bad conduct. In the movie “It’s a Wonderful Life,” George Bailey was a community banker, but so was Mr. Potter.



    Two things about that "specific". One, it backs up what I've been saying which is that the community banks were generally not guilty of the abuses. Yet Warren and the others want them to have to pay. Two, he references a movie from the 1940s as proof of...what exactly?

    Miller goes on to say absolutely nothing in his testimony that refutes what I've been saying. He was part of the creation of the CFPB and if you're inclined to take only the word of a non-banker who created the agency in question, then you are only looking for partisanship, and not objectivity.

    The "scare tactics" you mention come from people who actually understand community banking, and have given - contrary to what you said - specifics on their concerns, which I have been posting about all along.

    When you want to be serious and non-partisan, please let me know. This was obviously a waste of my time.

  10. #390
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton[W:336]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Who would you rather have as president?
    I'm not crazy about either of them. They are just your average run-of-the-mill politicians. To clarify on my feelings about EW, see link below. I think this shows that she is nothing but a "politician" in EVERY sense of the word.

    Elizabeth Warren's Populist Student Loan Ploy Stalls | The Daily Caller

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