View Poll Results: Who would you rather have as president?

Voters
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  • Hillary Clinton

    19 32.20%
  • Elizabeth Warren

    40 67.80%
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Thread: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton[W:336]

  1. #101
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Well, even though we aren't specifically discussing this, here is something quick and very simplified (it is very complex). There is something she was behind called QM/ATR. It's a result of the people who foolishly overextended themselves on their mortgages.
    Yeah, I looked it up. It requires that lenders verify a borrower's ability to repay loans, so that banks don't get into a habit of 'risky lending' (aka predatory lending).

    QM/ATR severely limits a bank's ability to make a 1-4 family first mortgage loan to consumers. So as time goes on, credit will be more and more scarce, and you will see cries of "we can't get a home loan anymore from our bank/credit union", and the small banks and credit unions will look like the bad guys.
    That's a fair argument.

    There is a very little percentage of Americans who are too dumb to make smart decisions, so Warren, believing that all Americans are too dumb to make smart decisions, have put processes in place in the banks that make it so that there are guidelines to determine what is a good loan versus what is a bad loan. Most Americans didn't get themselves into trouble with overextension and signing contracts for loans they had no chance of repaying.
    From good ol' Wikipedia:

    The U.S. subprime mortgage crisis was a nationwide banking emergency that triggered the recession of 2008, through subprime mortgage delinquencies and foreclosures, resulting in the devaluation of the attendant securities.

    These mortgage-backed securities (MBS) and collateralized debt obligations (CDO) initially offered attractive rates of return due to the higher interest rates on the mortgages; however, the lower credit quality ultimately caused massive defaults.[1] While elements of the crisis first became more visible during 2007, several major financial institutions collapsed in September 2008, with significant disruption in the flow of credit to businesses and consumers and the onset of a severe global recession.[2]
    So to reduce everyone down to the lowest, dumbest denominator is what Warren has done, and because the regulatory burden is simply too cumbersome and too expensive for most of the 6800 or so small banks, they will likely go out of the residential lending business altogether, will become easy prey for large banks, or will have to pay enormous fines for not following the CFPB system. Credit will dry up, and homebuyers will suffer.
    Let me know if I lose you.

    Sen. Elizabeth Warren: A Warrior for Small Community Banks and Credit Unions | Occupy Democrats

    Community banks represent roughly 95% of all banking organizations, as of 2011. However, they only represent approximately 14% of banking assets in America. at the same time, community banks hold 46% of all small loans to businesses, according to a study done by Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC).

    Senator Warren has been a supporter of community banks and credit unions since the 1990s. “A rule that can be facially neutral can end up slamming community banks, and that’s part of what I worry about,” Warren said in an interview, adding that her interest in small banks dates to the 1990s. “I became increasingly concerned about the business model of the largest financial institutions — too many of them built their profit model around tricking their customers. Community banks didn’t do that. So right from the beginning I saw the key differences among their practices.”
    ...

    “On my first day of work helping set up the new consumer agency, I met with community bankers from Oklahoma. We talked about a lot of things — three of us had gone to the same high school, and many of their banks were located in towns where I still have family. But the most engaging part of our conversation was about how the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau could become a strong partner with community banks.
    ...

    One Ohio banker forcefully explained that his bank didn’t believe in pricing tricks, but that he had to compete with lenders who do — and who sell products that often appear to be cheaper. From his perspective, real competition in the credit market is less about who makes the best product and more about who can hide costs from the customer until it is too late.

    For more than a decade, the number of small banks has shrunk. Consolidation has thinned their ranks, and some have failed outright. The result is less diversity — fewer firms and fewer differences in the approaches used in the financial services sector.

    The bankers I have talked with are not looking to Washington to solve their problems. But they are looking for a market that allows them to compete. They are looking for a regulatory structure that doesn’t require an army of lawyers, and a level playing field that lets customers see the true cost of a product — so lenders do not need to compete against a phantom price.
    ...

    Supporting community banks and credit unions over larger institutions is a way to send a message that you side with small businesses. And it is helping to positively shape the view of Senator Warren in the banking industry, Massachusetts, and across the country.

    According to Brian Gardner, an analyst with Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, “It’s a way for her to rebut the argument that she’s anti-banking industry, because her retort is, ‘no, I’m not anti-banking, I’m pro-small business,’ and that’s a very smart place to be politically.”

    Further, the leaders in the community banks and credit unions have a very positive attitude towards Senator Warren.
    Whew! Thanks for making me research this more, tres borrachos. Now I can promote Warren like a boss.

    By the way - you keep mentioning economics. I'm not an economist. This is about banking regulations, not the economy.
    Regulating banks is ultimately about what's good for the economy.

  2. #102
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Who would you rather have as president?
    Hillary Clinton without a doubt. I'm a reliable Republican voter but if we made the mistake of nominating someone like Cruz or Perry I'd at least entertain the possibility of voting for her instead of not voting. If it was Warren I'd be frightened enough to possibly hold my nose and vote for any candidate the GOP fielded. Warren frightens me. I think Hillary Clinton isn't close to my ideal but I think she's competent, intelligent, and has more of a practical bent than she usually gets credit for from people.

  3. #103
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    I'd take Clinton. At least she has experience.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

  4. #104
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Yeah, I looked it up. It requires that lenders verify a borrower's ability to repay loans, so that banks don't get into a habit of 'risky lending' (aka predatory lending).



    That's a fair argument.



    From good ol' Wikipedia:





    Let me know if I lose you.

    Sen. Elizabeth Warren: A Warrior for Small Community Banks and Credit Unions | Occupy Democrats



    ...



    ...



    ...



    Whew! Thanks for making me research this more, tres borrachos. Now I can promote Warren like a boss.



    Regulating banks is ultimately about what's good for the economy.
    Sorry, but "Occupy Democrats" isn't a non-partisan, fact based source. And by the way, "risky lending" and Warren's definition of "predatory lending" are not the same thing.

    I won't waste my time continuing this discussion with someone who isn't serious. Have a good day.

  5. #105
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Sorry, but "Occupy Democrats" isn't a non-partisan, fact based source.
    Attacking the source is a logical fallacy. But it's a great way to shut down a discussion! Well done.

  6. #106
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Who would you rather have as president?
    That's like asking if you want brain cancer or Lou Gehrig's disease



  7. #107
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    How exciting! That's not something most people get to do! Have a great time, Pero.
    Thanks Pol, Just got home and will be heading out in the morning. So Good night my friend, it is like having a bit of Thailand and Laos right here in the good ole USA when you go to the Wat.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  8. #108
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Well, even though we aren't specifically discussing this, here is something quick and very simplified (it is very complex). There is something she was behind called QM/ATR. It's a result of the people who foolishly overextended themselves on their mortgages. QM/ATR severely limits a bank's ability to make a 1-4 family first mortgage loan to consumers. So as time goes on, credit will be more and more scarce, and you will see cries of "we can't get a home loan anymore from our bank/credit union", and the small banks and credit unions will look like the bad guys. There is a very little percentage of Americans who are too dumb to make smart decisions, so Warren, believing that all Americans are too dumb to make smart decisions, have put processes in place in the banks that make it so that there are guidelines to determine what is a good loan versus what is a bad loan. Most Americans didn't get themselves into trouble with overextension and signing contracts for loans they had no chance of repaying. So to reduce everyone down to the lowest, dumbest denominator is what Warren has done, and because the regulatory burden is simply too cumbersome and too expensive for most of the 6800 or so small banks, they will likely go out of the residential lending business altogether, will become easy prey for large banks, or will have to pay enormous fines for not following the CFPB system. Credit will dry up, and homebuyers will suffer.

    That is one very small and very oversimplified example.

    By the way - you keep mentioning economics. I'm not an economist. This is about banking regulations, not the economy.

    Yeah, people aren't "There is a very little percentage of Americans who are too dumb to make smart decisions" THAT'S why household debt doubled under Bush while wages were stagnant

    WHICH party in the transaction has the responsibility to have credit underwriting standards and to write the checks again during Bush's subprime crisis?

  9. #109
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    I hope Sarah Palin runs and wins in '16.

  10. #110
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    Re: Elizabeth Warren vs. Hillary Clinton

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I don't have the time nor the interest in educating you on banking or the banking regulations. Too long and involved. Can't you Google and do some research? You may want to if you're seriously championing Warren. Do you always champion a politician's actions and views on something that - by your own admission here - you know little about?

    I'm not the economy, and never claimed to be so I'm not sure why you blurted that out? You said that banks were riding roughshod over the economy. I'm part of the economy, and they never rode roughshod over me. So I'll ask you again...how did they ride roughshod over you?


    Banks used cheap capital to create a bubble. Their lending strategies fueled and fed off the housing bubble, and they did so using mortgage products whose performance was premised on continued growth of that bubble.

    Indeed, at its peak in 2003, the financial sector was generating 40% of the profits in the American economy with around 10% of the labor force (Fligstein and Shin, 2007; Krippner 2010)



    These profits were mostly being made from businesses centering on and related to the selling of mortgages and the creation of various forms of mortgage backed securities and related financial products.


    The mortgage business, at its peak in 2003 , represented a $4 trillion industry, about 25% of the American economy. Beginning in late 2006 and early 2007 , the financial sector fell apart

    http://www.tobinproject.org/sites/to...Disaster_0.pdf
    .

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