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Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

  • GOP

    Votes: 5 5.1%

  • Black Leadership

    Votes: 22 22.4%

  • Democrats

    Votes: 15 15.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 56 57.1%
  • Total voters
    98
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RedAkston said:
There were many blacks who lived free, but there were far more that did not here in the US at one point in time. Various races or groups of people have been viewed at one point in history as "not a human" or "less than human" and were "ruled" as slaves. It all started with the American Indians, then blacks, Chinese, Irish, Japanese, Hispanics and even women to an extent. The US has a long history of being intolerant and "racist" in their policies and actions - and no group has a better case for this than the American Indians. But those days are long gone and behind us. Slaves, predominantly black slaves for the purpose of this discussion, were exploited primarily for labor - because they were viewed as a "lesser race" and were thus ruled. It was wrong and most of us have seemed to move past that. But others, and some are in this very thread, want to see racism in everything because they don't understand what true racism is. The word "racist" and "racism" is thrown around so much that they wouldn't know what true racism is if it happened in their own living room.
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The point is that individuals cannot continue to use the past to explain their failings in the present, otherwise the Chinese in the west would not have thrived...
 
Gimmesometruth said:
OMFG!

Really, living in the South gave you the experience that racism more significant for whites than blacks, that the number of blacks who are racists outnumber whites who are racists.

When one believes that, there is no point in producing graphs....or research.
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I've lived in or around big cities my entire life before I moved to the south. Yes, despite your inexperience, there is a percentage of blacks who do hate whites and it even permeates itself in some hardcore rap music. But that percentage (you seem to have missed this the first time) is so small that it's insignificant in your attempt to scream "RAciSM ExisTS EVerYWherE!"

Gimmesometruth said:
PS..

Racism
Is any action or attitude, conscious or unconscious, that subordinates an individual or group based on skin color or race. It can be enacted individually or institutionally.

Source: US Civil Rights Commission
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So you're using a definition of racism that is not the actual definition and therein lies the problem. You are using the definition of prejudice and not racism. This explains why you have been so wrong about everything in this entire thread.
 
sangha said:
I've also seen that in action. I have also seen the opposite in action

Why is that so hard for you to accept?
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I already explained there are two versions. Sadly enough, it's the defenders of racial rights that are the worst offenders. Real racism, as I've experienced in the south is far more observable than any PC crap that is identified as possibly offensive. It amounts to namby pamby words and name calling, when I've seen real hatred in action.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
The point is that individuals cannot continue to use the past to explain their failings in the present, otherwise the Chinese in the west would not have thrived...
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I agree completely, the past is the past. We need to learn from the past and not make the same mistakes. Some "groups" tend to do this better than others.
 
RedAkston said:
So you're using a definition of racism that is not the actual definition and therein lies the problem. You are using the definition of prejudice and not racism. This explains why you have been so wrong about everything in this entire thread.
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I agree that there is a difference between prejudice and racism. However, as commonly used, the term racism is often used to describe prejudice when the prejudice is based on race or even ethnicity.
 
RedAkston said:
But those days are long gone and behind us.
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Wait, you just said that black racists outnumbered white racists where you grew up......so what happened.....have they all died.....and the racism in America died with them?
 
sangha said:
I agree that there is a difference between prejudice and racism. However, as commonly used, the term racism is often used to describe prejudice when the prejudice is based on race or even ethnicity.
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But "prejudice" can be based on race, not necessarily "is" based on race. One can be prejudice against women, homosexuals, redheads, people who drive BMW's or people under 5 feet tall. Just because someone has a prejudice against blacks doesn't mean that they are a racist unless they act on it.
 
grip said:
I already explained there are two versions. Sadly enough, it's the defenders of racial rights that are the worst offenders. Real racism, as I've experienced in the south is far more observable than any PC crap that is identified as possibly offensive. It amounts to namby pamby words and name calling, when I've seen real hatred in action.
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TBH, I really don't understand what you're saying here. I was pointing out that i've seen people who did their job,etc and were not rewarded with advancement because of their race. That's a bit more than namby pamby words and name calling. It is a clear harm to people's livelihoods.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Wait, you just said that black racists outnumbered white racists where you grew up......so what happened.....have they all died.....and the racism in America died with them?
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No I didn't and no they haven't. I can see that debating with you is pointless because you use your own definitions as opposed to the actual definitions, you read something that isn't there and you put words in people's mouths that they did not say. I don't think your posts could be any more dishonest even if you put forth a little more effort to make them so.
 
RedAkston said:
I agree completely, the past is the past. We need to learn from the past and not make the same mistakes. Some "groups" tend to do this better than others.
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I'm not sure where or how the discussion went from "Does racism bear some of the blame?" to "Does slavery bear some of the blame?"

IMO, racism is something that is not limited to the slavery or something else that happened a long time ago
 
RedAkston said:
I've lived in or around big cities my entire life before I moved to the south. Yes, despite your inexperience, there is a percentage of blacks who do hate whites and it even permeates itself in some hardcore rap music. But that percentage (you seem to have missed this the first time) is so small that it's insignificant in your attempt to scream "RAciSM ExisTS EVerYWherE!"
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I understand, racist views are held by an insignificant number of people....and of those that do, blacks racists outnumber all, including white racists!


So you're using a definition of racism that is not the actual definition and therein lies the problem. You are using the definition of prejudice and not racism. This explains why you have been so wrong about everything in this entire thread.
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Ah, prejudice....is a physical action.

Wow, somebody better tell the Civil Rights Commission they got it all wrong.
 
sangha said:
TBH, I really don't understand what you're saying here. I was pointing out that i've seen people who did their job,etc and were not rewarded with advancement because of their race. That's a bit more than namby pamby words and name calling. It is a clear harm to people's livelihoods.
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I've never actually seen racism on that level, at least not since the 70's. If you think that's where this country currently exists, then I think you're being, not only unrealistic, but overboard.
 
RedAkston said:
But "prejudice" can be based on race, not necessarily "is" based on race. One can be prejudice against women, homosexuals, redheads, people who drive BMW's or people under 5 feet tall. Just because someone has a prejudice against blacks doesn't mean that they are a racist unless they act on it.
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Yes, I noted that there is a difference between prejudice and racism. However, I also noted that in common conversation, the two terms are often used interchangeably.

IOW, if you change the question from "Is racism to blame?" to "Is prejudice to blame?" you haven't really done much to change the discussion other than which word you use to describe the problem.
 
grip said:
I've never actually seen racism on that level, at least not since the 70's. If you think that's where this country currently exists, then I think you're being, not only unrealistic, but overboard.
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If that's what you think, then I'll ask you again "Why is that so hard to accept?"
 
sangha said:
Yes, I noted that there is a difference between prejudice and racism. However, I also noted that in common conversation, the two terms are often used interchangeably.

IOW, if you change the question from "Is racism to blame?" to "Is prejudice to blame?" you haven't really done much to change the discussion other than which word you use to describe the problem.
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And if you changed it to "Is perceived racism to blame?" or "Is perceived prejudice to blame?" we would get an even bigger change in the discussion. But when one is talking about "prejudice" and others are talking about actual "racism", it starts to get ridiculous.
 
sangha said:
If that's what you think, then I'll ask you again "Why is that so hard to accept?"
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Not only does what you suggest not exist, but it's in the opposite direction, with prejudice given to employees of color. Why can't you admit the obvious.
 
grip said:
not only does what you suggest not exist, but it's in the opposite direction, with prejudice given to employees of color. Why can't you admit the obvious.
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lol..
 
RedAkston said:
And if you changed it to "Is perceived racism to blame?" or "Is perceived prejudice to blame?" we would get an even bigger change in the discussion. But when one is talking about "prejudice" and others are talking about actual "racism", it starts to get ridiculous.
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I suspect we're not going to agree on this one. IMO, it's a bit pedantic to get hung up over the difference between racial prejudice and racism when the end result (disparate treatment based on race) is the same.

But you're a pretty smart guy. Maybe you can explain why that is a significant difference
 
grip said:
Can you say affirmative action.
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That is not "prejudice".....given to blacks.

This constant twisting of language is just so pathetic.

And even if you want to start talking about AA, it was addressing past RACIAL DISCRIMINATION, ie, racism.....which you and your brethren deny existed in any significant amount., you still set yourself up for acknowledging its existence.
 
grip said:
Not only does what you suggest not exist, but it's in the opposite direction, with prejudice given to employees of color. Why can't you admit the obvious.
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Since I have seen it happen, I doubt you'll be able to convince me that it doesn't happen
 
Gimmesometruth said:
That is not "prejudice".....given to blacks.

This constant twisting of language is just so pathetic.

And even if you want to start talking about AA, it was addressing past RACIAL DISCRIMINATION, ie, racism.....which you and your brethren deny existed in any significant amount.
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The cause of racial disparity on an economic level is simply not white bigotry anymore. It's cause is more of an epidemic racial discontinuous harmony. I don't deny that racial differences once existed but not for decades in any significance, it's all recently been a bunch of apologist crappola.
 
sangha said:
Since I have seen it happen, I doubt you'll be able to convince me that it doesn't happen
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Are you talking about a few instances or overall.
 
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