• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

  • GOP

    Votes: 5 5.1%
  • Black Leadership

    Votes: 22 22.4%
  • Democrats

    Votes: 15 15.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 56 57.1%

  • Total voters
    98
Status
Not open for further replies.
"the black community was well on its way towards the same in many parts of the country prior to the 1970s"

Your chart didn't even include anything prior to the 1970s, so I'm not sure what you think you've proven here.

and so you post a AFGR 2014 chart......which doesn't support your original point at all.

That blacks have the highest drop out rates of any major ethnic group in the United States? How so?

Actually, currently, they are on par....but that still wasn't the point you were defending.
http://www2.ed.gov/documents/press-releases/state-2010-11-graduation-rate-data.pdf

California - White graduation rate : 85% Latino rate: 70% Black rate: 63%

Minnesota - White graduation rate: 84% Latino rate: 51% Black rate: 49%

Florida - White graduation rate: 76% Latino rate: 69% Black rate: 59%

New Jersey - White graduation rate: 90% Latino rate: 73% Black rate: 69%

They sure as Hell don't look "on par" to me.

So...again....this doesn't change the fact that you could not discern from the chart that White women, Black women and men are earning close to the same and far behind White males.

What's your point? I never claimed that they were making the same as white males. I said that they made a great deal of progress prior to the 1970s, which has since leveled off.

Frankly, in case you haven't noticed, it's not like we're doing especially great right now anyway. If anyone's having run away "success" right now, it is Asian Americans.
 
Too simplistic. Your not alone, but blaming the victim is all too common:

In the 1960s, social psychologist Dr. Melvin Lerner conducted a famous serious of studies in which he found that when participants observed another person receiving electric shocks and were unable to intervene, they began to derogate the victims. The more unfair and severe the suffering appeared to be, the greater the derogation. Follow up studies found that a similar phenomenon occurs when people evaluate victims of car accidents, rape, domestic violence, illness, and poverty. Research conducted by Dr. Ronnie Janoff-Bulman suggests that victims sometimes even derogate themselves, locating the cause of their suffering in their own behavior, but not in their enduring characteristics, in an effort to make negative events seem more controllable and therefore more avoidable in the future.

Why Do We Blame Victims? | Psychology Today

This is common with women, minorities, and the poor.

You bypassed the threshold discussion issue, which is whether or not modern day American blacks are even victims.

That question is not conclusively answered simply by an acknowledgement of the fact that many blacks are kept hopelessly dependent as voting wards of your Democrat party.
 
Last edited:
Only they haven't, as they are still doing everything in their power to succeed. They are attaining degrees at rates never seen before, and (where the Middle Classes are concerned, anyway) getting into most kinds of trouble less commonly than previous generations. Their failures are to blame on the poor state of the current economy more than anything else.

Why yes. The failure to succeed of many young adults does not show that they have stopped trying to succeed. The failure to succeed of many black does show that they have stopped trying to succeed

No, I am expressing the idea, and statistical fact, that people who do not go out of their way to behave like morons tend to succeed far more commonly in life than those who do.

Again, this is irrefutable, the state of the current economy not withstanding.

What is irrefutable is that you have repeatedly said one thing, and then denied having said it.


Uh-huh, sure. :lol:

It doesn't have to "prove" anything. The fact of the matter is that such attitudes exist. They have a lot to do with the black community's failure to move forward.

And here's an example of you saying one thing (that blacks criticizing other blacks for being Uncle Toms is common) and then pretending you said something else ("such attitudes exist") once you've been proven wrong.



Yes. You defended the idea that adults today were "better behaved" than past generations. Modern blacks are worse behaved.

Please quote where I said that adults today were better behaved than past generations. The link you posted is to a thread where I talk the rate of obesity, meeting exercise guidelines, and alcohol use and was about teenagers, not adults.
Which group of the two would you rank as being more likely to "succeed" all things being equal?[/QUOTE]
 
Why yes. The failure to succeed of many young adults does not show that they have stopped trying to succeed. The failure to succeed of many black does show that they have stopped trying to succeed

If blacks do stupid and objectively counter-productive things like dropping out of school and having children they cannot afford out of wedlock where Middle Class young adults do not?

Yes. Absolutely.

I really fail to see why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp. Simply put, actions have consequences. Unfortunately, a great many African Americans have made a habit of taking some truly stupid actions in life. They continue to do so for generation after generation.

What is irrefutable is that you have repeatedly said one thing, and then denied having said it.

Only for those too stubborn to see what has been placed right in front of their nose for what it actually is. :shrug:

And here's an example of you saying one thing (that blacks criticizing other blacks for being Uncle Toms is common) and then pretending you said something else ("such attitudes exist") once you've been proven wrong.

And here's an example of you clearly realizing that you have lost the debate on a certain point, and so trying to misrepresent my point in order to save yourself.

All I ever claimed was that these attitudes exist, and are destructive, as they prevent blacks from pursuing courses of action which might lead them to success.

Please quote where I said that adults today were better behaved than past generations. The link you posted is to a thread where I talk the rate of obesity, meeting exercise guidelines, and alcohol use and was about teenagers, not adults.

Which was clearly meant to defend the OP's supposition that today's generation was "better behaved" than those of the past.

Do you deny that belief?
 
Last edited:
Your chart didn't even include anything prior to the 1970s, so I'm not sure what you think you've proven here.
FFS!

you have proven for the 3rd time that you cannot read a chart.

This is getting pointless, I use charts to make it simple...



That blacks have the highest drop out rates of any major ethnic group in the United States? How so?
Oh, gawd, no that was not the original point I countered when I posted it in response to you.

Are you doing this on purpose? Does intentional confusion win you argument?



California - White graduation rate : 85% Latino rate: 70% Black rate: 63%

Minnesota - White graduation rate: 84% Latino rate: 51% Black rate: 49%

Florida - White graduation rate: 76% Latino rate: 69% Black rate: 59%

New Jersey - White graduation rate: 90% Latino rate: 73% Black rate: 69%

They sure as Hell don't look "on par" to me.
This is known as "cherry picking", Blacks and Hispanics are at parity.......and this is still not a defense of your original point......that you now cannot remember.



What's your point? I never claimed that they were making the same as white males. I said that they made a great deal of progress prior to the 1970s, which has since leveled off.
Again, you can't remember that your original objection was:

"Black wages would also seem to be more or less on par with those of everyone else, and your claim concerning white women is simply bizarre, as the chart blatantly contradicts your claim."

They are not on par with white males, they are on par with white women, the claim was not contradicted. Don't make me have to go back over your original comments because you can't remember them.



Frankly, in case you haven't noticed, it's not like we're doing especially great right now anyway. If anyone's having run away "success" right now, it is Asian Americans.
Looking for a tangent, a distraction from your inability to keep your story straight? yep.
 
FFS!

you have proven for the 3rd time that you cannot read a chart.

This is getting pointless, I use charts to make it simple...

Oh, gawd, no that was not the original point I countered when I posted it in response to you.

Are you doing this on purpose? Does intentional confusion win you argument?

At this point, I'm quite frankly not even sure if you know what my argument is.

Again, all I've done here is point out the objective fact that African Americans had much greater success in eliminating poverty and elevating their station in American society prior to the 1970s than they have had since. They have more or less plateaued in the ensuing decades.

The destructive behaviors "Black Culture" has been responsible for perpetuating in that time frame is a major factor in bringing this about.

This is known as "cherry picking", Blacks and Hispanics are at parity.......and this is still not a defense of your original point......that you now cannot remember.

Clearly not, as that is not what your chart actually shows. In a great many areas of the country (probably most, as a matter of fact) blacks are behind whites, latinos, and asians where high school graduation rates are concerned.

This is reflected in the national average I posted before, and even in the graph you just posted.

figure-coi-2.jpg

Again, you can't remember that your original objection was:

"Black wages would also seem to be more or less on par with those of everyone else, and your claim concerning white women is simply bizarre, as the chart blatantly contradicts your claim."

They are not on par with white males, they are on par with white women, the claim was not contradicted. Don't make me have to go back over your original comments because you can't remember them.
Looking for a tangent, a distraction from your inability to keep your story straight? yep.

Yes, "on par" in the sense that they seem to have waxed and waned in tandem with most other groups. I never said that they were necessarily "equal."
 
Last edited:
Which was clearly meant to defend the OP's supposition that today's generation was "better behaved" than those of the past.

Do you deny that belief?

You claimed that I said that young adults are better behaved than young adults in the past. You said you could prove I said that. You said the proof was there in black and white.

Either quote me saying that, or admit that it is you who is lying about what I have said.
Don't lie, Sangha. Own up to your words.

Did you not argue that young adults today were less likely to abuse alcohol, drugs, and fall into delinquency than previous generations?

I know you did. I can provide sources, if you like.
 
Blacks themselves. They encourage scapegoatism and "blaming whitey". If you're a success doing something besides ballin, slingin, or rappin, you're a sellout. If you speak coherently, you're "talking white". If you're black and support responsibility amongst your own, you're an Uncle Tom.

Black culture does great at keeping their own people down and explaining who is to blame for it.

Count with me the number of black folk on this thread blaming "whitey" or quoting anything said by Jackson or Shaprton VERSUS all the people ready to give an oppinion on "what is wrong with black folk"...Shall we.

We will count you as part of group number 2.
 
I blame those who, (Like the person who started this thread.), have lots of time to waste talking about a problem.

But no time to spend solving that problem.

Solving this problem will require a lot of people to get off of their backsides and actually do something.

I don't expect to see that happen anytime soon.

The hell? When's the last time you've gotten your ass off DP and helped the black community? When's the last time you've done anything at all in real life to further your political beliefs?
 
The hell? When's the last time you've gotten your ass off DP and helped the black community? When's the last time you've done anything at all in real life to further your political beliefs?




ROTFLMAO :lamo

When did you ever reach your hand out to anyone who didn't look and think exactly like you?




Take a long hike on a short pier.




IOW: Have an aerial intercourse with a piece of motivating pastry.
 
Last edited:
ROTFLMAO :lamo

When did you ever reach your hand out to anyone who didn't look exactly like you?




Take a long hike on a short pier.

You didn't answer my question, so why should I answer yours? You came into this thread and provided zero constructive input and didn't even address the topic in any way shape or form. You show up and complain that everyone is on a debate forum instead of helping people on the streets.

Are you only here to troll? Because this low quality bull**** seems to be a reoccurring theme from you.

I mean look at this low quality garbage:
I blame those who, (Like the person who started this thread.), have lots of time to waste talking about a problem.

But no time to spend solving that problem.

Solving this problem will require a lot of people to get off of their backsides and actually do something.

I don't expect to see that happen anytime soon.

This could literally be about any topic on this forum. Do you just copy paste this around?
 
You didn't answer my question, so why should I answer yours?
You came into this thread and provided zero constructive input and didn't even address the topic in any way shape or form. You show up and complain that everyone is on a debate forum instead of helping people on the streets.

Are you only here to troll? Because this low quality bull**** seems to be a reoccurring theme from you.

I mean look at this low quality garbage:


This could literally be about any topic on this forum. Do you just copy paste this around?




Do and say whatever you want to do and say, Won't cost me a penny.

I see this comment by you as an attempt to shut me up. that ain't going to happen.

I will continue to use my 1st Amendment rights to say and do whatever I want to say and do.

No one forces you to read anything that I post.

Have a nice day and never think for one second that any of the BS that you post has any real, lasting impact on anyone.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen." ~ Tommy Smothers
 
Last edited:
I blame the drug war and the welfare state. The first because the drug war unfairly targets minorities and second, the welfare state punishes hard work and gives people entitlements for free.
 
Do and say whatever you want to do and say, Won't cost me a penny.

I see this comment by you as an attempt to shut me up. that ain't going to happen.

I will continue to use my 1st Amendment rights to say and do whatever I want to say and do.

No one forces you to read anything that I post.

Have a nice day and never think for one second that any of the BS that you post has any real, lasting impact on anyone.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen." ~ Tommy Smothers

So you scold us for doing nothing for the black community then refuse to explain what you've done for them?

I saw a low quality, off topic post that had nothing to do with the OP and was exceptionally hypocritical because you don't do dick for the black community either, so I called you out on it.

I'm not really sorry you got butthurt about it. Stay on topic and people might tear you up less. If you can't handle that perhaps you should take up something more fitting like knitting or gardening instead of debate.

Not sure who told you that you have a right not to be criticized when you write ridiculous things, but they lied.
 
Last edited:
A staggering statistic that 38 percent of black children live in poverty. And, certain politicians continue to fight against access to birth control. It shouldn't even be a political issue as far as I'm concerned. It's pragmatic and common sense if we want to affect some kind of change. Yet, these clowns get voted in and are partly responsible for not allowing change. It's shameful.
 
I would elaborate on that by asserting it is Black Leadership and Black Cultural Icons that perpetuate these problems within the community. Leadership is responsible for scapegoatism (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton are big in that area) and of course there are numerous examples of bad examples set by Black Icons. If every small black child grew up admiring Herman Cain and yes even President Obama (As much as I disagree with his politics I think he is a good man and a good role model for young african americans.) I think Black America would be far better served.

Before 1960, most black families were headed by two parents. They went to church and didn't have kids out of wedlock. They valued work and held jobs. Then we got Johnson's War on Poverty and Great Society programs and things went to ****. These programs and their successors are now driving a cultural shift in the country as a whole, and not for the better.

The Coming Cultural Disintegration | The American Spectator
 
You bypassed the threshold discussion issue, which is whether or not modern day American blacks are even victims.

That question is not conclusively answered simply by an acknowledgement of the fact that many blacks are kept hopelessly dependent as voting wards of your Democrat party.

It has been that long since civil rights. I still point to places that discriminate. I can take you to a place with two schools: one private and one public. Guess which is all white and which is all black. The all black has no choice but to take anyone they. Can get to teach (police chief teaches math for them). The private school won't take minorities. There's much that goes unseen.
 
No it wasn't. The drug laws (and the subsequent "war on drugs") targets drug users. The enforcement of these laws may be a different story, but the intent of the drug laws and the "war on drugs" was not to "target minorities" as you seem to proclaim.

Do some research into the history of drug laws. The laws against marijuana in particular were intentionally created to target blacks and Mexicans, but there are elements of racist intent with many of the other drugs that were banned.
 
The title is evident. Who is the MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans today??

We really have given them no reason to want to be productive members of society. The system is set up to where they can rely on it completely and never have to work. The ones that feel the government does not give them enough go out and steal it. That's why so many of them are in prison. The problem is the entitlement mentality. A problem you don't see near as often in any other ethnic community because every other ethnic community values working for a living and earning money to support yourself. Where as, in the black community, any effort made to be productive is looked at as conspiring with the evil white man.
 
We really have given them no reason to want to be productive members of society.

Then explain why most black people (who can work) do have jobs?
ted_20111005.png


It looks like white people have to be encouraged to work, while black people work in spite of being encouraged to not work. If anything, it demonstrates that black people have a superior work ethic while white people are lazy. IMO, that sounds very anti-white.
 
Last edited:
Seems you are conflating earnings for women prior to 1960 and the lack of wage gains after 1980.

Ah, so you do see what I said...so no inconsistency.

Again, still having a hard time handling the idea that living alone is easier for women now....but that low-mid wage gains have dropped off. Marriage is not a requirement for sharing of income.

Gee, if you want I can show that the average TANF payment has dropped way below the peak of AFDC, and you don't get EITC without employment. The majority receiving SNAP/TANF are working....part time....at multiple jobs. But keep playing the Welfare Queen card, it looks good.

Yes, you said that it's easier for women to make it alone now because it's easier for them to make a living and that wages are lower than they used to be. Nope, no inconsistency there, just a bit of doublethink.

And, no, I've already said that it's easier for women to live alone now, or more to the point, to live with their illegitimate children. Perhaps that is one reason why marriage is less common than it used to be.

Selfishness is another big reason, of course, that and failing to plan for the future.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom