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Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

  • GOP

    Votes: 5 5.1%

  • Black Leadership

    Votes: 22 22.4%

  • Democrats

    Votes: 15 15.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 56 57.1%
  • Total voters
    98
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cpwill posted one clue as to the reason for the problems African Americans are experiencing in the cartoon thread. Here it is:

marriage_poverty_chart12_PROMO.jpg
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You (the theoretical you) are free to be racist.....so long has you do not affect me. However, I should have legal protections to stop any and all racism/discrimination by you that does affect me....since you cannot control your racism.
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and so you (the theoretical you), would have legal recourse. That does not stop the action. Hence, no law really stops someone from doing what sociaty has deemed to be illegal.

What is more important is to raise our kids to respect all people, treat them as they would like to be treated, and judge people by thier actions, not what they look like.
 
mike2810 said:
and so you (the theoretical you), would have legal recourse. That does not stop the action. Hence, no law really stops someone from doing what sociaty has deemed to be illegal.
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Duh, this is pointless and straw, since I never claimed it would.....that was your condition.

What is more important is to raise our kids to respect all people, treat them as they would like to be treated, and judge people by thier actions, not what they look like.
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That is a non-sequitur and another duh.

If we were perfect, we would need no law, since we would know the consequence of everything.

But we are not, so the solution until then is to create law until we all know what is right.
 
Dittohead not! said:
cpwill posted one clue as to the reason for the problems African Americans are experiencing in the cartoon thread. Here it is:
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Cpwill relies on the Bell Curve ideology, blaming minority issues on morality/inferiority based argument that ignores racism.

It is denialism and racism in its highest form.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Cpwill relies on the Bell Curve ideology, blaming minority issues on morality/inferiority based argument that ignores racism.

It is denialism and racism in its highest form.
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That would only be true if there were someone trying to keep African Americans from getting married.
 
Dittohead not! said:
That would only be true if there were someone trying to keep African Americans from getting married.
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There were/are lots of reasons for declines in marriage rates, few have anything to do with morality, most are economic reasons, and the declines are shared by all races starting in the 60's.

You don't need to be a surrogate for cpwill, he and I have had our debate, he lost it.
 
I voted 'other', that other being European (predominantly British) colonialism and early American society. It's what happened 150+ years ago that is responsible for what is happening now. Sure, measures put in place to improv the lot of African-Americans might be inadequate, and there's a small minority who don't want things to improve, but the answer's really history.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
There were/are lots of reasons for declines in marriage rates, few have anything to do with morality, most are economic reasons, and the declines are shared by all races starting in the 60's.

You don't need to be a surrogate for cpwill, he and I have had our debate, he lost it.
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It's easy to win a debate when you're the one keeping score.
But, you do have a point that there are economic reasons why poor black and white people don't get married, and those reasons tend to revolve around the welfare state. So, if you're going to argue that the welfare state is counter productive in the long run, you won't get much argument from me.
 
Dittohead not! said:
It's easy to win a debate when you're the one keeping score.
But, you do have a point that there are economic reasons why poor black and white people don't get married, and those reasons tend to revolve around the welfare state. So, if you're going to argue that the welfare state is counter productive in the long run, you won't get much argument from me.
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No, that is the Bell Curve argument, and it does not surprise me you like it.

Did US welfare, "War on Poverty", begin in the 1950's?

67159081d1388349920-were-black-people-better-off-before-integration-marriage-rates-race.jpg


With declining rates through the ending of AFDC and other poverty programs, even through today, it is still due to "welfare"?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
No, that is the Bell Curve argument, and it does not surprise me you like it.

Did US welfare, "War on Poverty", begin in the 1950's?

67159081d1388349920-were-black-people-better-off-before-integration-marriage-rates-race.jpg


With declining rates through the ending of AFDC and other poverty programs, even through today, it is still due to "welfare"?
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I don't know. It is logical to think that the war on poverty is a accelerating the decline in marriage.

So, what do you think is causing the decline in married couples raising children? Surely, whatever that factor may be must be a large part of the reason why blacks and whites alike are living in poverty.
 
opendebate said:
How so?
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They spend a lot of time telling blacks that nothing that happens to them is their fault, that the white man owes them stuff and they shouldn't make any effort to get out of poverty, they deserve free stuff, just because they're black. There are tons of examples of this.
 
Puigb said:
White people call other white people who don't identify with the conservative ideology, or who voted for Obama a "self loathing white".

Truth be told, I see conservatives tossing around the "white guilt" label more than I see blacks calling other blacks uncle toms.
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I never heard that, especially since the first time around, I, a white person, voted for Obama. Why has nobody ever said that to me?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
The murder rate has dropped because the minority (not ethnicity) that are the killers have been removed from society.
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Seriously? This has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted at DP since I joined here. :lamo

Tell that to the citizens of Chicago, Oakland, Washington DC, Detroit and other democrat run cities with outrageous murder rates.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I'll write this slowly, I don't think we have all needed laws to end discrimination, inequality, et al.
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A good example is that of all the developed nations, the US is one of only three that provide more teachers to schools in middle and high income areas than they do to schools in low income areas.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I don't know. It is logical to think that the war on poverty is a accelerating the decline in marriage.

So, what do you think is causing the decline in married couples raising children? Surely, whatever that factor may be must be a large part of the reason why blacks and whites alike are living in poverty.
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Like most complicated issues, including the one referred to in the OP, there's probably a variety of factors

For example, increasing income for women and participation by them in the workforce has made them less dependent on men. Increased incarceration rates of black males combined with a reluctance of many white men to marry to black women has left black women with fewer viable options with respect to marriage.

If I devoted more thought to it, I could probably come up with a few more. IOW, the idea that one single thing (like the right wing delusion that it's caused by welfare) is the cause is hopelessly simplistic which explains why simpletons prefer it (there's less to remember)
 
sangha said:
Like most complicated issues, including the one referred to in the OP, there's probably a variety of factors

For example, increasing income for women and participation by them in the workforce has made them less dependent on men. Increased incarceration rates of black males combined with a reluctance of many white men to marry to black women has left black women with fewer viable options with respect to marriage.

If I devoted more thought to it, I could probably come up with a few more. IOW, the idea that one single thing (like the right wing delusion that it's caused by welfare) is the cause is hopelessly simplistic which explains why simpletons prefer it (there's less to remember)
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Increased income for women: Maybe, if the only reason for them to marry is to have a breadwinner.
Increased incarceration: Men in jail aren't making babies generally.
Interracial marriage is much more common and accepted than it once was, and anyway, what goes for poor blacks goes for poor whites as well.

I'm not so sure that the financial help available to single mothers can be dismissed as a factor, perhaps a major factor.
 
Dittohead not! said:
I don't know. It is logical to think that the war on poverty is a accelerating the decline in marriage.
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If you think this, then show your basis, you guys talk a lot, but have little data backing the claim.

So, what do you think is causing the decline in married couples raising children? Surely, whatever that factor may be must be a large part of the reason why blacks and whites alike are living in poverty.
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A lot of the decline in marriage period....is due to the fact that women do not need the male as a breadwinner, they can be the earner. Many women choose to be single mothers....because they can do so, without the threat of domestic violence. As I pointed out to your bud, after the implementation of no fault divorce, female suicide, homicide and domestic abuse declined sharply. There are many aspects to this issue, a one size does not fit all quintiles......but then.....the burden is being shifted, I'm not the one that has a point to prove......you do.
 
MasterLiberty said:
The title is evident. Who is the MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans today??
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The Revs (neither is the pastor of any church) Sharpton and Jackson come to mind. Why blacks still listen to these two race baiters is beyond me.
 
RedAkston said:
Seriously? This has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted at DP since I joined here. :lamo
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Trolling and baiting, by a someone who should know better.

Tell that to the citizens of Chicago, Oakland, Washington DC, Detroit and other democrat run cities with outrageous murder rates.
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violentcrime_fig1.jpg
 
RedAkston said:
Seriously? This has to be one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted at DP since I joined here. :lamo

Tell that to the citizens of Chicago, Oakland, Washington DC, Detroit and other democrat run cities with outrageous murder rates.
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well in all fairness I have seen far more idiotic things (like the claim that soccer isn't a sport and doesn't require any exertion) and there are many prosecutors and criminologists who claim that the severe three strike sentences that were popular under Reagan in response to the "crack epidemic" took lots of the hard core mopes out of circulation. However, most of those types would have beyond the age of most street criminals by now if they were not in prison or not dead so that claim is less valid
 
Dittohead not! said:
Increased income for women: Maybe, if the only reason for them to marry is to have a breadwinner.
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I think that is the point, prior to the 1960's, it was very difficult for women to earn enough to live on their own.
Increased incarceration: Men in jail aren't making babies generally.
Interracial marriage is much more common and accepted than it once was, and anyway, what goes for poor blacks goes for poor whites as well.
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Black-white marriage accounts for 3% of all marriage today, less so since Loving v Virginia. This is a pointless comment.

I'm not so sure that the financial help available to single mothers can be dismissed as a factor, perhaps a major factor.
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This argument is really a dead end for two reasons, single teenage pregnancy has been declining, the births rates for Blacks and Whites are in decline......and if you want less single parent poverty, then call for higher wages for low-mid income earners of ALL households. Over the last 30 years the lowest quintile as had negative wage gains.
 
TurtleDude said:
and there are many prosecutors and criminologists who claim that the severe three strike sentences that were popular under Reagan in response to the "crack epidemic" took lots of the hard core mopes out of circulation. However, most of those types would have beyond the age of most street criminals by now if they were not in prison or not dead so that claim is less valid
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Uh, correction.....would make it more valid.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
I think that is the point, prior to the 1960's, it was very difficult for women to earn enough to live on their own.
Black-white marriage accounts for 3% of all marriage today, less so since Loving v Virginia. This is a pointless comment.

This argument is really a dead end for two reasons, single teenage pregnancy has been declining, the births rates for Blacks and Whites are in decline......and if you want less single parent poverty, then call for higher wages for low-mid income earners of ALL households. Over the last 30 years the lowest quintile as had negative wage gains.
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Or, perhaps we could call for people to get married before making babies, since it has already been shown that children of married couples are far less likely to live in poverty.
 
MasterLiberty said:
I would elaborate on that by asserting it is Black Leadership and Black Cultural Icons that perpetuate these problems within the community. Leadership is responsible for scapegoatism (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton are big in that area) and of course there are numerous examples of bad examples set by Black Icons. If every small black child grew up admiring Herman Cain and yes even President Obama (As much as I disagree with his politics I think he is a good man and a good role model for young african americans.) I think Black America would be far better served.
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I don't disagree that black "leaders" are to blame, but I don't think that goes deep enough to the root of the problem. I chose Democrats because I believe it is Democrats that encourage and teach them to work the system (in exchange for an almost solid block of political support). There was a time when blacks were overwhelmingly conservative (because they had to be self-sufficient) until the Dems came in and started appealing to the lowest common denominator.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Or, perhaps we could call for people to get married before making babies, since it has already been shown that children of married couples are far less likely to live in poverty.
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Since you decided to skip my prior response to you on the reasons why women are choosing not to marry, you missed the point. Further, your argument is only showing that large numbers of households require 2 incomes to avoid poverty, which again points to the bigger issue, the lack of wage gains for the lowest quintile.

change-in-real-family-income-by-quintile-and-top-5-percent-1979-2009.png


It is even worse for blacks and hispanic households.
 
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