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Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

  • GOP

    Votes: 5 5.1%

  • Black Leadership

    Votes: 22 22.4%

  • Democrats

    Votes: 15 15.3%

  • Other

    Votes: 56 57.1%
  • Total voters
    98
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This thread has been brought to you by the same people who tell rape victims to get over it.
 
Hatuey said:
This thread has been brought to you by the same people who tell rape victims to get over it.
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Modern African Americans are not "victims." Frankly, the fact that so many of them insist on thinking of themselves as such is a major part of the problem where their advancement in American society is concerned.

I hate to break it to everyone, but the simple fact of the matter is that "success" isn't the kind of thing that is arbitrarily bestowed upon a person, or a people, by someone else. It is something that they have to reach out, take for themselves, and throttle into submission.

The "bleeding hearts" can bitch all they want. Nothing will change where the black community's situation is concerned until they make the decision to make it happen for themselves.

We need to see a lot more Harlem Renaissance, and a lot less pining over imaginary "Obama phones," and gangster rap concerning "baby mommas," violent crime, and substance abuse.
 
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Gathomas88 said:
I hate to break it to everyone, but the simple fact of the matter is that "success" isn't the kind of thing that is arbitrarily bestowed upon a person, or a people, by someone else. It is something that they have to reach out, take for themselves, and throttle into submission.
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Unless you're white and have recently graduated from school, in which case the lack of success is caused by the economy and modern culture

We need to see a lot more Harlem Renaissance, and a lot less gangster rap concerning "baby mommas," violent crime, and substance abuse.
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That's pretty ironic given that the Harlem Renaissance emphasized the slavery experience and racial identity
 
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Gathomas88 said:
Modern African Americans are not "victims."
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This depends on whether you consider the products from a rape to be victims. I certainly do.

I hate to break it to everyone, but the simple fact of the matter is that "success" isn't the kind of thing that is arbitrarily bestowed upon a person, or a people, by someone else.
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Easy to say when you don't belong to a group of people who were economically, socially and culturally raped for 300 years. :shrug:

The "bleeding hearts" can bitch all they want. Nothing will change where the black community's situation is concerned until they make the decision to make it happen for themselves.
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tumblr_mb8fgv2Vps1qh021co1_500.png


We need to see a lot more Harlem Renaissance, and a lot less gangster rap concerning "baby mommas," violent crime, and substance abuse.
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Romanticism from the 1920s? That's a new one. Tell us, how was the rest of 1920s black America doing at that time? ;)
 
Hatuey said:
This depends on whether you consider the products from a rape to be victims. I certainly do.
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African Americans are not rape victims.

Easy to say when you don't belong to a group of people who were economically, socially and culturally raped for 300 years.
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Guess what, I'm predominantly Irish. :roll:

tumblr_mb8fgv2Vps1qh021co1_500.png
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Cute cartoon. It doesn't mean anything.

Romanticism from the 1920s? That's a new one. Tell us, how was the rest of 1920s black America doing at that time?
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Gaining ground faster than they are today.
 
Hatuey said:
Romanticism from the 1920s? That's a new one. Tell us, how was the rest of 1920s black America doing at that time? ;)
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Well, I guess saying that blacks were better off in the 1950's didn't work, so why not go further back. Soon, we'll be in Claven Bundy territory
 
Gipper said:
Enough. Fortunately, the ones I know are proud, strong, confident black individuals. I don't associate with hoods.
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And what exactly does "enough" mean and why doesn't knowing these people who you wouldn't not describe in this way keep you from making such a claim
 
MasterLiberty said:
I would elaborate on that by asserting it is Black Leadership and Black Cultural Icons that perpetuate these problems within the community. Leadership is responsible for scapegoatism (Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton are big in that area) and of course there are numerous examples of bad examples set by Black Icons. If every small black child grew up admiring Herman Cain and yes even President Obama (As much as I disagree with his politics I think he is a good man and a good role model for young african americans.) I think Black America would be far better served.
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How about now you tell me what it's like to be a woman and what "excuses" I've chosen to provide myself.
 
sangha said:
My point is that one who blames people for their own lack of success should apply that same standard to their own lack of success.
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That depends entirely upon whether the blame in question can be said to be justified.

In the case of a clean cut Middle Class young adult who played by every rule society set out, earned a college degree, suffered no criminal record or black mark against them to speak of in the process, and even served their country overseas, there is a fair amount of leeway to complain. I was told that if I did certain things, I would achieve a certain result.

So far, no such result has been forthcoming. Tens of millions of other young adults are in the exact same boat I am.

It is a fairly new phenomena as well, which can be almost exclusively attributed to the state of the current US economy.

That's not exactly the same thing as giving up on school "because it's a waste of time," knocking a girl up before you even turn 18, and using petty crime as an alternative source of income, while blaming "whitey" for one's circumstances the whole time. It is even less so when it can be shown for an absolute fact that no other group has these kinds of endemic problems.
 
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1. Systematic dismantling of African-American schools via racist policies of funding schools with property taxes.
2. The racist war on drugs which creates single-parent homes and sends an astonishing number of blacks to prison.
3. Insanely lax gun laws that allow young, education and opportunity-deprived black men to kill each other.
4. KKKapitalism.
 
Cephus said:
I would agree with that but it wasn't a choice. I think that they've been misled by both black leadership and the Democrats who have a vested interest in keeping them poor as a voting block. Black leadership has really pushed the failed black culture and continues to do so. People like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have done more to harm blacks in America than any other source.
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How so?
 
Gathomas88 said:
The rise of single motherhood as the default African American family model undoubtedly played a large role in this as well.
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That of course implies that single mothers are intrinsically incapable of raising balanced children (fail)
 
Gathomas88 said:
That goes both ways, unfortunately. There are plenty of African Americans out there who look at Caucasians as being "white" first and fellow citizens second.
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irrelevant
 
tacomancer said:
Most blame? That's a hard one. All elements in the poll bear a portion of the blame for this unfortunate situation. However, as far as the largest portion, I think its most likely a result of internalized racism. In other words, the culture has yet to recover from decades of "you aren't good enough" and those attitudes need to be overcome. In today's world, I wouldn't give anyone that blame for causing it, as those people are pretty much dead, but the culture has yet to recover.

Almost all the successful black folks I know and I become more than an acquaintance with have at one time told me that they participate in community outreach with the basic goal of telling young folks that they matter and have something to contribute to the world. If whole generations are being raised with the view that they don't, then that generation isn't going to try, but rather desire to check out. The fundamental issue is self esteem and confidence passed down generationally.
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You might be interested in reading about something called "Internalized Oppression" it's about how oppressed people (women being the example I learned this through) adopt or buying into the value judgments made of them.
 
Gathomas88 said:
African Americans are not rape victims.
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Who says they are? They are the product of 300 years of social, cultural and economic destruction. That's a fact.

Guess what, I'm predominantly Irish. :roll:
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Who cares? You're still not a member of a class of people who actually struggled much after being here. Within 50 years of Irish immigration into the US you were considered first class citizens. In 1964, while black people were still fighting just to get their civil rights, an Irishman had already been president.

Cute cartoon. It doesn't mean anything.
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Of course it does. It has made this debate far more easy to use than the catch phrases you use to get likes on this thread. Look, it's simple - America, white America, thrived off the free labor provided by blacks for 150 years. It destroyed our culture, told us we were worthless and then sold us off for 100 years. Then, after it told us were all free and equal men, it denied us property and lynched those of us who stood against injustice for another 100 years. By the time the 1900s rolled around, it gave us inferior learning institutions, voting tests and denied us access to what every other ethnic group in this country had: wealth. So now, 50 years away from the time when that was all legal, we're supposed to be doing just as well as the rest? Haha, you're being silly.

Gaining ground faster than they are today.
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Only that's not true, the roaring 20s as they were called were a decade of prosperity for well, damn near everyone who lived in cities. So the Harlem Renaissance was not only natural but expected. At the time however, it was criticized for being a cheap copy of European culture. What's I think is far more interesting though is the fact that your own source cites poverty as the declining factor in this movement:

The Harlem Renaissance grew out of the changes that had taken place in the African-American community since the abolition of slavery, as well as the expansion of communities in the North. These accelerated as a consequence of World War I and the great social and cultural changes in early 20th-century United States. Industrialization was attracting people to cities from rural areas and gave rise to a new mass culture. Contributing factors leading to the Harlem Renaissance were the Great Migration of African Americans to northern cities, which concentrated ambitious people in places where they could encourage each other, and the First World War, which had created new industrial work opportunities for tens of thousands of people. Factors leading to the decline of this era include the Great Depression.
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The rest of black America? Living in poverty across the South and Midwest. What's sad about your 1920s argument is that it focuses on a time when the black community in one small neighborhood was thriving so that it can ignore the injustices being carried out elsewhere. How come blacks in Alabama, where Jim Crowe was in full force didn't have a Harlem renaissance? How come blacks in Louisiana didn't either? Blacks in Texas? Does it matter? The Harlem renaissance was a cultural movement not a political or economic one and by the time the Great Depression rolled around it was gone. :shrug:
 
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opendebate said:
That of course implies that single mothers are intrinsically incapable of raising balanced children (fail)
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No. However, they are, by and large, certainly incapable of providing the same kind of financial stability and quantity of care that a two parent household tends to be.

This plays into a great many other issues, such as not being able to send one's children to the best schools, not being able to provide the best quality medical care, not being able to afford to live in neighborhoods which might provide one's children the most positive environment for future success, not being able to spend the necessary amount of time raising, disciplining, motivating, and supervising one's children required to keep them out trouble, and etca.

When one is talking about a group which tends to be somewhat disadvantaged to begin with, the damage this can cause is basically fatal to the goal of upward social mobility and material achievement.

opendebate said:
irrelevant
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Racism is irrelevant?
 
Gipper said:
Did you just infer that the federal justice system used race as a determinant criterion in incarceration?
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Do a little research Gip. She's right.
 
tres borrachos said:
In this day and age, any problems the black community or any other groups has (I don't know what the OP is specifically referring to) are their own doing.
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Wow I can only hope you were drunk when you posted this.
 
tres borrachos said:
Exactly. In this country, anyone who feels the need to improve himself can do so, assuming he's physically and mentally capable of doing so.

Personal responsibility has been sadly diminished in this country. Everything is always someone else's fault.
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You're ignorance is almost charming.....almost.
 
Gathomas88 said:
That depends entirely upon whether the blame in question can be said to be justified.
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You have a point. When a white person claims that something other than themselves is the cause for their lack of success, their claim might be justified. When a black person does the same, it can't possibly be justified

In the case of a clean cut Middle Class young adult who played by every rule society set out, earned a college degree, suffered no criminal record or black mark against them to speak of in the process, and even served their country overseas, there is a fair amount of leeway to complain. I was told that if I did certain things, I would achieve a certain result.
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I see. When you said:
I hate to break it to everyone, but the simple fact of the matter is that "success" isn't the kind of thing that is arbitrarily bestowed upon a person, or a people, by someone else. It is something that they have to reach out, take for themselves, and throttle into submission.
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the reaching out, taking and throttling you referred to meant "be clean cut, middle class, educated and have no criminal record"

So far, no such result has been forthcoming. Tens of millions of other young adults are in the exact same boat I am.
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yes, and when millions of young adults all say the same thing, there must be something to it. Unlike when millions of black people say the same thing. Then, there's nothing to it.

It is a fairly new phenomena as well, which can be almost exclusively attributed to the state of the current US economy.

That's not exactly the same thing as giving up on school "because it's a waste of time," knocking a girl up before you even turn 18, and using petty crime as an alternative source of income, while blaming "whitey" for one's circumstances the whole time. It is even less so when it can be shown for an absolute fact that no other group has these kinds of endemic problems.
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Why yes again! For the very first time in history, it's hard to find a job.
 
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