Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

Cardinal · Jun 13, 2014

tres borrachos said:
He should be a role model for anyone in this country, regardless of their color or his for that matter. Anyone in this country can rise to great things. You have to want it, and you have to work for it. Obama is actually also proof that you can go from food stamps to the White House in a few decades.

I wasn't arguing otherwise. It's just that his being president speaks uniquely to black people who believe that rising to the presidency is an impossible notion.

tres borrachos · Jun 13, 2014

Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans??

Baralis said:
I chose black leadership - I mean Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are pretty much a given as failed leadership but it is so much more than that. I am talking about parents, teachers, businessmen, ect. they are all failing the younger generation.

Long story short, I attended a ultra poor predominantly black school for a year when I was 12. I observed quite a few differences from what I was used to in both school facility and students. The first thing that I noticed was they were lagging very far behind in the curriculum being taught. They were teaching things I had covered 2-3+ years prior, I felt like I was in 3rd grade again and not the 6th. I was amazed at just how far behind they were. This gave me ample time to be more observant of the environment and some of the things I noticed were the attitudes of both teachers and students were remarkably different. The teachers (which were also black) seemed to talk down to the students and acted as if they were attempting to train a rock. They showed very little inspiration or expectation out of their students. It was if they felt they were wasting their time and they were just going threw the motions.

The students themselves had a different outlook. Many (not all) seemed to view education as a waste of time that it would not benefit them in life. They seemed to believe that their lives were pre determined and that they would live the same lives that their parents lived which was a very poor life with seemingly no opportunities to better it. It appeared to them that school was simply something they were forced to do and they did not strive to excel at it. They did as little as they could get by with.

A few of the boys (dare I say maybe even a majority) in my class were eager to let everyone know that they were already gang members who sold drugs for a living and an education was not relevant to their lives. Their aspirations in life never went beyond that.

So I blame the black leaders within the community (or lack of) for failing to set and show examples of success and the importance of education and striving to become something better. Until hope is shown to them I feel each generation will largely be lost.

Wow, that bolded part is really depressing. If those boys grew up to be gang members who sold drugs, they are responsible for their own failures.

Slartibartfast · Jun 13, 2014

Gimmesometruth said:
I don't think blame was laid on "the law", she was clearly focused on enforcement.

Its possible I misunderstood. I seemed to have the same interpretation of the statement as Red did.

tres borrachos · Jun 13, 2014

Cardinal said:
I wasn't arguing otherwise. It's just that his being president speaks uniquely to black people who believe that rising to the presidency is an impossible notion.

He's living proof that any black person can rise to the pinnacle, if that black person wants it enough - and works for it. He's one of many.

Gimmesometruth · Jun 13, 2014

Gipper said:
And the information is heterogeneous, lacking in variability such as type of drug?

Ooops....

If anyone says "crack is penalized harder than pot because crack is a black drug" is going to be incessantly mocked.

I have no idea why you rely on straw argument.

Gathomas88 · Jun 13, 2014

AJiveMan said:
Maybe...some were white too....

Whew, that was close! She almost had a child out of wedlock.

There's a few others too.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Single motherhood is on the rise for whites as well as blacks, and tends to be just as harmful.

As a matter of fact, it has actually been linked by several economists to the shrinking Middle Class in our society, and the reduced upward social mobility we have experienced over the course of the last few decades.

Cardinal said:
Anyone who thinks that forcibly removing a people from their home and systematically dismantling their names, language, belief system and family structure isn't going to have disastrous generations-long consequences is kidding themselves at best and intellectually dishonest at worst.

The vast majority of African Americans in the United States have been here for two centuries at least, and all have been free of slavery for at least one hundred and fifty years. That's plenty of time to establish a language, belief system, and a cohesive family structure, or integrate into those utilized by society at large.

Quite frankly, right up until the 1970s, they had all three of the former, and were well on their way towards cinching the latter.

African Americans, for whatever reason, simply happen to have largely "dismantled" their own pre-existing culture and family structure over the course of the last few decades. The Dems bear some blame for that, in supporting policies which made this negative transition easier. The GOP might very well bear some blame as well in their overly-enthusiastic pursuit of the "drug war."

However, the major impetus for that change has always come from the black community itself, and always will. Until the attitudes which make this state of affairs possible reverse themselves on some fundamental level, the problem isn't going to be going away any time soon either.

Any which way you want to look at it, the bottom line here is that if the black community wants to get ahead, they are going to have to do it for themselves. No one can do it for them.

sangha · Jun 13, 2014

Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans??

Baralis said:
A few of the boys (dare I say maybe even a majority) in my class were eager to let everyone know that they were already gang members who sold drugs for a living and an education was not relevant to their lives. Their aspirations in life never went beyond that.

There were some kids in my school like that, except they were white and the gang they belonged to was neither the Crips nor the Bloods.

I blame Nixon for that.

Cardinal · Jun 13, 2014

tres borrachos said:
He's living proof that any black person can rise to the pinnacle, if that black person wants it enough - and works for it. He's one of many.

Any black person? Ha ha, no. Where you come from (economically, geographically, family-support, availability of good education, genetically, etc. etc. etc.) are all variables that will raise and lower your likelihood of such success.

Dittohead not! · Jun 13, 2014

shrubnose said:
I would like everyone to do something.

And I would like their efforts to focus on treating everyone in the USA with the same respect that they expect from others.

I'm pretty sure that would make a difference for everyone.

I'm also pretty sure we aren't going to see it happen any time soon.

tres borrachos · Jun 13, 2014

Cardinal said:
Any black person? Ha ha, no. Where you come from (economically, geographically, family-support, availability of good education, genetically, etc. etc. etc.) are all variables that will raise and lower your likelihood of such success.

Obama's mother was on food stamps. His father wasn't at all active in his life. He made it in spite of this.

There are many black men who are born into absolute poverty and are successful today. Just as there are many white people who were born into poverty and are successful today.

Baralis · Jun 13, 2014

Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans??

tres borrachos said:
Wow, that bolded part is really depressing. If those boys grew up to be gang members who sold drugs, they are responsible for their own failures.

I think a person has to look at it from their point of view. When they look around at their parents, siblings, neighbors, ect. and all they see is struggling people living in poverty and then they see that drug dealer down the road with the slightly better home and a flashy car and cash in his pocket it may be no wonder they decide to chose that route. It is sad they have no other role models in their community to set as an example.

tres borrachos · Jun 13, 2014

Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans??

Baralis said:
I think a person has to look at it from their point of view. When they look around at their parents, siblings, neighbors, ect. and all they see is struggling people living in poverty and then they see that drug dealer down the road with the slightly better home and a flashy car and cash in his pocket it may be no wonder they decide to chose that route. It is sad they have no other role models in their community to set as an example.

If you could say that everyone who grew up in poverty did that, then it would be true. But not everyone who is born into poverty wants to stay there. So the boys who said that when you were young were taking the coward's way out, and the others in their community aren't to blame. JMO.

We all have a chance to take paths in life. If we choose to take paths that are dishonest, illegal, and bad, that's on us.

CanadaJohn · Jun 13, 2014

MasterLiberty said:
The title is evident. Who is the MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans today??

Gee - African Americans have problems? After 5 plus years in the White House of the transformative Presidency? After about 95% of all African Americans who cast their votes voted to elect and reelect that self-same transformative figure? After upwards of 90% of all African Americans who cast ballots in federal elections have been voting Democrat for decades and decades?

Gee - if they have any problems, do you think maybe it might have something to do with the people they keep sending to the party in Washington DC?

Cephus · Jun 13, 2014

Gipper said:
I didn't want to pass the buck. Just because they talk the loudest and stand on the tallest boxes, doesn't make them "leaders". They're snake oil salesmen. They can talk, but blacks don't have to listen, nor do they have to lend credence to those words.

Oh, I'm not trying to pass the buck, ultimately everyone out there is personally responsible for what they allow into their heads. People like Jackson and Sharpton and preachers like Jeremiah Wright have a platform to speak from and their position within the community gives them an unearned position of authority. People listen to them and most of them have an agenda that falls outside of simply trying to help their brethren. They're out to make money and garner political and social power on the backs of those they pretend to care about. They can't force people to accept the mind poison but they certainly are an effective delivery method for spreading it.

AJiveMan · Jun 13, 2014

Gathomas88 said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Single motherhood is on the rise for whites as well as blacks, and tends to be just as harmful.

As a matter of fact, it has actually been linked by several economists to the shrinking Middle Class in our society, and the reduced upward social mobility we have experienced over the course of the last few decades.

The vast majority of African Americans in the United States have been here for two centuries at least, and all have been free of slavery for at least one hundred and fifty years. That's plenty of time to establish a language, belief system, and a cohesive family structure, or integrate into the those utilized by society at large.

Quite frankly, right up until the 1970s, they had all three of the former, and were well on their way towards the latter.

African Americans simply happen to have largely "dismantled" their own culture and family structure over the course of the last few decades. The Dems bear some blame for that, in supporting policies which made this negative transition easier, and the GOP might very well bear some blame as well in their pursuit of the "drug war."

However, the major impetus for that change has always come from the black community itself, and always will. Until the attitudes which make it possible change on some fundamental level, the bleak reality of the matter is that the problem isn't ever going to go away.

Either way you want to look at it, the bottom line here is that if the black community wants to get ahead, they are going to have to do it for themselves. No one can do it for them.

The thing I was alluding to was the fact that people believe this promiscuity thing is something of a recent phenomenon among blacks, it's been going on for quite some time, and it isn't restricted to primarily one race or ethnicity of people. It's been going on forever.

One of the reasons I picked Dale Evans was because she probably became pregnant at age 14 and nearly had a child out of wedlock. Guess who hired her for her motion picture debut?

One other early star had a child out of wedlock too, she was also a white person, and she was hired by the same studios, her name escapes me now because I deleted her information from my bookmarks a while back.

So this problem isn't only a black thing, whites are affected by it too.

Gimmesometruth · Jun 13, 2014

tres borrachos said:
Obama's mother was on food stamps. His father wasn't at all active in his life. He made it in spite of this.

There are many black men who are born into absolute poverty and are successful today. Just as there are many white people who were born into poverty and are successful today.

Sure, but the rates a very different.

Dittohead not! · Jun 13, 2014

CanadaJohn said:
Gee - African Americans have problems? After 5 plus years in the White House of the transformative Presidency? After about 95% of all African Americans who cast their votes voted to elect and reelect that self-same transformative figure? After upwards of 90% of all African Americans who cast ballots in federal elections have been voting Democrat for decades and decades?

Gee - if they have any problems, do you think maybe it might have something to do with the people they keep sending to the party in Washington DC?

Or, maybe the government can't solve all of the problems of society after all.

Cardinal · Jun 13, 2014

tres borrachos said:
Obama's mother was on food stamps. His father wasn't at all active in his life. He made it in spite of this.

There are many black men who are born into absolute poverty and are successful today. Just as there are many white people who were born into poverty and are successful today.

I said, these are all variables that will raise and lower your likelihood of such success. So a combination of very little money but access to good education and having highly supportive parent/s can, in my mind, actually be more important than a combination of lots of money and zero emotional support. Now, let's take away emotional support, money and a good education opportunity and....well, sorry, but I wouldn't bet any money on that kid. You have to consider all the variables. You can't pin it down to just one (or even two). And just for the record, the brains god gave you (DNA) is absolutely going to be one of those variables.

tres borrachos · Jun 13, 2014

CanadaJohn said:
Gee - African Americans have problems? After 5 plus years in the White House of the transformative Presidency? After about 95% of all African Americans who cast their votes voted to elect and reelect that self-same transformative figure? After upwards of 90% of all African Americans who cast ballots in federal elections have been voting Democrat for decades and decades?

Gee - if they have any problems, do you think maybe it might have something to do with the people they keep sending to the party in Washington DC?

Especially the ones who voted for Obama because they decided him being President meant they wouldn't have to worry about paying for the gas or mortgages anymore.

Gathomas88 · Jun 13, 2014

AJiveMan said:
The thing I was alluding to was the fact that people believe this promiscuity thing is something of a recent phenomenon among blacks, it's been going on for quite some time, and it isn't restricted to primarily one race or ethnicity of people. It's been going on forever.

One of the reasons I picked Dale Evans was because she probably became pregnant at age 14 and nearly had a child out of wedlock. Guess who hired her for her motion picture debut?

One other early star had a child out of wedlock too, she was also a white person, and she was hired by the same studios, her name escapes me now because I deleted her information from my bookmarks a while back.

So this problem isn't only a black thing, whites are affected by it too.

True. However, it's hard to deny that the problem has become a lot worse in recent decades, and that African Americans tend to have the most serious issues with it.

This trend has resulted in some rather nasty economic and social consequences for the black community as a whole over the course of the last few decades.

CanadaJohn · Jun 13, 2014

tres borrachos said:
Especially the ones who voted for Obama because they decided him being President meant they wouldn't have to worry about paying for the gas or mortgages anymore.

Perhaps she had an intimate relationship with the President, or maybe she was thinking of another Obama. Or maybe she was speaking about Smiling Joe.

Unitedwestand13 · Jun 13, 2014

tres borrachos said:
Especially the ones who voted for Obama because they decided him being President meant they wouldn't have to worry about paying for the gas or mortgages anymore.

Hope is a powerfull thing. Hope was somthing that fdr gave to the country through two of the nations worst crisis's.

Hard Truth · Jun 13, 2014

poverty, mental illness, racism

Morality Games · Jun 13, 2014

Gipper said:
Blacks themselves. They encourage scapegoatism and "blaming whitey". If you're a success doing something besides ballin, slingin, or rappin, you're a sellout. If you speak coherently, you're "talking white". If you're black and support responsibility amongst your own, you're an Uncle Tom.

Black culture does great at keeping their own people down and explaining who is to blame for it.

I don't see why people with powers of analysis like this can't take the extra step and reach true objectivity.

Yeah, blacks have a culture like that, but it exists because mainstream American society spent a full century post-slavery blocking the participation of blacks (as well as Irish, Poles, Jews, Catholics, etc) from atop state government and at the grassroots with terrorist groups like the Ku Klux Klan. Human beings acquire a set of morals and habits as they respond to life challenges, values that they pass down to their children; the values blacks were taught to pass down to their children was that asserting yourself and trying to be equal got you lit on fire hanging from a tree with your dick cut off.

Black veterans returning from service in the World Wars got that because they dared wear their uniforms coming off the boats. It sort of leaves an impression that take a few generations to go away, which was the entire point and why the Klu Klux Klan existed in the first place, to leave such an impression on blacks.

Truth be told, relations between blacks and white could be very cordial, and even friendly; as long as the black observed the proper rituals of respect and adhered to the invisible boundaries of power, existing in the economic, political, and cultural margins of American society.

Black culture is a creation of the Klu Klux Klan, mainstream American society at the grassroots level during the 1860-1960s, and political leaders like Jesse Helm; it was created "precisely" so blacks would be this way for generations to come.

If you have any familiarity with Greek history, you would know the Spartans enlisted similar practices against their Helot population.

Muhammed · Jun 13, 2014

sangha said:
The very same people Obama threw off their health insurance plans :lamo

Got an example?

Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

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