View Poll Results: Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

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  • GOP

    5 4.39%
  • Black Leadership

    29 25.44%
  • Democrats

    21 18.42%
  • Other

    59 51.75%
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Thread: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

  1. #521
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I agree that there is a tendency for many people to call any policy which has a disparate impact on black people "racist" when oftentimes the policy is based on our attitudes towards poverty and not race (which ends up having a disparate impact because blacks are more likely to be poor)

    However, I also think it's a bit pedantic to concern ourselves over whether the problem is racism or classism when the effect of a policy causes more harm to blacks than to other groups
    You just nailed the hammer on the head with the true problems being classism. We've as a people long outgrew real racism, it's been more about position and status for years now. The minorities, blacks and latinos have suffered more as a result than any other race but it's not about race for the rulers, as much as class distinction.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    Being prejudice does not make one a racist. Not feeling comfortable walking out to your car at night if there is a black male hanging around the parking lot (this can be seen as prejudice) is a far cry from saying that black males cannot use the same bathroom as white males (this is institutional racism).
    I agree with all of that. I also believe, as I just noted in a response to grip, that there is a tendency to call any policy that has a disparate impact on black people "racist" even if the motivation or thought behind it has nothing to do with actual racism (either a belief in racial inferiority or desire to systematically oppress people based on race). However, I'm not sure there's much significance in distinguishing between the two when it comes to this discussion.

    The way I see it is, if some policy or cultural "tradition" (I'm using that term very loosely to include things like crossing the street when you see a group of young tough-looking black kids) has a negative effect on black people, then why is it significant that we call it prejudice (or whatever) instead of racism? Regardless of the words we use to describe it, it's still having the same effect on black people and their situation.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #523
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You're very intelligent but allow your bias to control your perception. Do you believe Obama was elected because he was black or the best candidate.
    Everyone's perception is influenced by their biases. I'm not immune to that.

    But to answer your question, people get elected for a number of reasons. At least, most of the time. In Obama's case, I have no doubt that many voted for him because he was black, and that many voted for him because they thought he was the best the candidate. And I'm sure some people thought he was the best the candidate because he is black
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    You just nailed the hammer on the head with the true problems being classism. We've as a people long outgrew real racism, it's been more about position and status for years now. The minorities, blacks and latinos have suffered more as a result than any other race but it's not about race for the rulers, as much as class distinction.
    I do think that classism is a bigger problem than racism, but I don't think we have outgrown racism. However, that may be a bias of mine as I grew up in an extremely racist environment.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #525
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I do think that classism is a bigger problem than racism, but I don't think we have outgrown racism. However, that may be a bias of mine as I grew up in an extremely racist environment.
    We have reached a common ground - 'classism' is the bigger problem. I don't think anyone is denying that racism still exists, but what I and others have said is that racism isn't what it used to be. The biggest issue why so many blacks can't rise above has less to do with "racism" or "prejudice" than some here claim.

    BTW, your post may be the very first post of your that I have ever 'liked'.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    We have reached a common ground - 'classism' is the bigger problem. I don't think anyone is denying that racism still exists, but what I and others have said is that racism isn't what it used to be. The biggest issue why so many blacks can't rise above has less to do with "racism" or "prejudice" than some here claim.

    BTW, your post may be the very first post of your that I have ever 'liked'.
    I have no doubt that racism has subsided a great deal. However, I don't think we can completely separate classism from racism. At least, not in this country. IMO, many people still make judgements based on race (racial prejudice as opposed to outright racism).
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  7. #527
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I do think that classism is a bigger problem than racism, but I don't think we have outgrown racism. However, that may be a bias of mine as I grew up in an extremely racist environment.
    Yep, I did too but it hasn't completely jaded my precepts of what real racism is. If anything, it has solidified my belief that today's PC version is way off.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Yep, I did too but it hasn't completely jaded my precepts of what real racism is. If anything, it has solidified my belief that today's PC version is way off.
    It has had the same effect with me, but I can't dismiss that which I can't see and bias is something one does not perceive in oneself.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #529
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    It has had the same effect with me, but I can't dismiss that which I can't see and bias is something one does not perceive in oneself.
    I'll tell you that racism still exists in a meaningful way but only in the form of classism. The elite don't care what our skin color or ethnicity is, as much as our education and skill level are. They measure us like a machine in what we can perform, nothing else.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I'll tell you that racism still exists in a meaningful way but only in the form of classism. The elite don't care what our skin color or ethnicity is, as much as our education and skill level are. They measure us like a machine in what we can perform, nothing else.
    I agree with that, but I'm not sure I would call racism a form of classism. However, at least in the US, the two seem "entwined" with each other. Or maybe entwined isn't the best word for it, but I can't think of a better word to use.

    For example, I think there's a tendency amongst many people to associate black people with the lower class and the lower class with black people. The racism and racial prejudice of some reinforces the negative associations they have regarding lower classes. That is, if you're racist, the fact that blacks are more likely to be poor makes it easier for you to have a negative opinion of poor people, even if most poor people are white.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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