View Poll Results: Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

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  • GOP

    5 4.39%
  • Black Leadership

    29 25.44%
  • Democrats

    21 18.42%
  • Other

    59 51.75%
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Thread: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

  1. #391
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Clearly not.
    Clearly yes


    Are you arguing that pursuit of education, marriage before childrearing, and avoidance of risky sexual and personal behavior are not actions generally necessary to ensure favorable economic and social outcomes?
    You seem to have done all of those and they haven't ensured success.



    Ahem...
    One YouTube video doesn't prove your claim that it's common.

    Don't lie, Sangha. Own up to your words.

    Did you not argue that young adults today were less likely to abuse alcohol, drugs, and fall into delinquency than previous generations?
    I do not recall ever saying anything remotely close to that.

    I know you did. I can provide sources, if you like.
    Be my guest
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    In one breath you say something based on a misreading of a chart:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Black wages would also seem to be more or less on par with those of everyone else, and your claim concerning white women is simply bizarre, as the chart blatantly contradicts your claim.
    The next breath has you contradicting your last breath....

    The American political system has also been bringing "key" African American individuals into government for decades now. It has made little to no difference whatsoever in elevating the fortunes of the Black Community.
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    The youth of today don't have good work ethics or values, because they're not taught them by word or example anymore.

    I don't see the problems of the African Americans being racial, as much as cultural. They have a perpetuated distrust and dislike for anything that's not in their wheelhouse of taste. It's not a social issue of white racism holding them down anymore, because most of the minor amount of actual racism comes from ignorant southerners and the poor class. In my mind, it's more of a money/elitist culture problem, with the working poor/middle against the upper percentiles.

    I believe the wealthy from all races black, asian, latino, indian etc laugh at people fighting over cultural differences, while they clean up at the bank. I don't automatically hate rich folk, I just know their issues are not ours and that the political leaders are in the same circle.

    As a whole they could care less about abortion, guns, racism, borders, etc It's all a bunch of knee jerk emotional stuff they use as political fodder, especially to blind the masses to what they really want, which is money, power and control.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Clearly yes


    Based upon what? Clearly not outcomes.

    Drop the contrarian bridge under-dweller routine, Sangha. You aren't fooling anyone. You don't have an argument here, and you know it.

    You seem to have done all of those and they haven't ensured success.
    Which is an anomaly, that has only come about in the last half decade. The Black Community's failure to thrive goes back decades, as does their penchant for bad behavior.

    One YouTube video doesn't prove your claim that it's common.
    Uh-huh.

    Again, the moment I stop seeing morons like the person featured in the video I posted on the last page calling any black person who tries to actually be successful in life by integrating into mainstream American culture an "Uncle Tom," I will give your argument that many blacks do not deliberately try to distance themselves from the rest of the United States credit.

    I will not do so a moment before.

    I do not recall ever saying anything remotely close to that.
    Then you are lying.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...ed-record.html

    You should really be more careful with what you say on public record, Sangha.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 06-15-14 at 03:03 AM.

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I don't see the problems of the African Americans being racial, as much as cultural. They have a perpetuated distrust and dislike for anything that's not in their wheelhouse of taste. It's not a social issue of white racism holding them down anymore, because most of the minor amount of actual racism comes from ignorant southerners and the poor class. In my mind, it's more of a money/elitist culture problem, with the working poor/middle against the upper percentiles.
    Exactly. It isn't anything genetic, or intrinsic to people of African descent simply by the merit of their being African.

    It is the result of culture. That culture simply happens to follow a particular race.

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post


    Based upon what? Clearly not outcomes.
    Based on outcomes, it would appear that young adults have given up trying to succeed. Funny how the failure to succeed proves that many black people have stopped trying to succeed but doesn't prove that many young adults have stopped trying

    Which is an anomaly, that has only come about in the last half decade. The Black Community's failure to thrive goes back decades, as does their penchant for bad behavior.
    You are expressing an entitlement mentality. People don't succeed merely for not doing the wrong things and for even doing the right things. There's a lot more that goes into being successful. A good education, waiting to be married before having children, etc have never been a gaurantee, or even necessary, for success


    Uh-huh.

    Again, the moment I stop seeing morons like the person featured in the video I posted on the last page calling any black person who tries to actually be successful in life by integrating into mainstream American culture an "Uncle Tom," I will give your argument that many blacks do not deliberate try to distance themselves from the rest of the United States credit.
    Again, a single YT video does not prove that it is common. With a population in the tens of millions, and thousand YT videos wouldn't prove that.



    Then you are lying.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...ed-record.html

    You should really be more careful with what you say on public record, Sangha.
    I have no idea what you're thinking. I have two posts in that entire thread. One talks about the % of young people (not young adults) who meet the exercise guidelines, and another which states that the abuse of alcohol seems to be declining.

    on edit: I missed one. There's a third post

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Also, the OP refers to exercise, while the charts you linked to refer to weight

    And no doubt, there are good points and bad.
    I don't know why you think my saying that there are both good and bad points concerning their behavior means that I said that they are better behaved.
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Exactly. It isn't anything genetic, or intrinsic to people of African descent simply by the merit of their being African.

    It is the result of culture. That culture simply happens to follow a particular race.
    It's also an age issue with the black culture. When they're young, they're rebellious against society in general but as they mature their thinking towards sustenance and survival change. That's actually true for all cultures to some degree. But once you've blown your opportunities during your viable work years, it's tough to recoup into an education or as a career professional by your 30's.

    Without the work experience and education, all the opportunities in the world won't help. Even their own cultural leaders, like Bill Cosby talk about them having poor role models and lack of father figures to emulate.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Based on outcomes, it would appear that young adults have given up trying to succeed. Funny how the failure to succeed proves that many black people have stopped trying to succeed but doesn't prove that many young adults have stopped trying
    Only they haven't, as they are still doing everything in their power to succeed. They are attaining degrees at rates never seen before, and (where the Middle Classes are concerned, anyway) getting into most kinds of trouble less commonly than previous generations. Their failures are to blame on the poor state of the current economy more than anything else.

    Again, this simply is not the case where the failures of the Black Community are concerned. They are shunning education more often than any other group, and making unwise life decisions much more commonly as well. They have been doing so for decades, and outcomes have reflected this reality.

    You cannot deny that.

    You are expressing an entitlement mentality. People don't succeed merely for not doing the wrong things and for even doing the right things. There's a lot more that goes into being successful. A good education, waiting to be married before having children, etc have never been a gaurantee, or even necessary, for success
    No, I am expressing the idea, and statistical fact, that people who do not go out of their way to behave like morons tend to succeed far more commonly in life than those who do.

    Again, this is irrefutable, the state of the current economy not withstanding.

    Again, a single YT video does not prove that it is common. With a population in the tens of millions, and thousand YT videos wouldn't prove that.
    Uh-huh, sure.

    It doesn't have to "prove" anything. The fact of the matter is that such attitudes exist. They have a lot to do with the black community's failure to move forward.

    I have no idea what you're thinking. I have two posts in that entire thread. One talks about the % of young people (not young adults) who meet the exercise guidelines, and another which states that the abuse of alcohol seems to be declining.
    Yes. You defended the idea that adults today were "better behaved" than past generations. Modern blacks are worse behaved.

    Which group of the two would you rank as being more likely to "succeed" all things being equal?
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 06-15-14 at 03:22 AM.

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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Then I question the validity of your source.
    Funny, first it "confirmed" what you said! The source is the dept of ed, as was shown on p4. Further, the "point" it was countering was first that "crack" caused lower education results (per Obvious) and next to counter your "point" that ...

    "the black community was well on its way towards the same in many parts of the country prior to the 1970s"

    and so you post a AFGR 2014 chart......which doesn't support your original point at all.

    Boing boing boing.

    Every other source we have available shows black high school graduation rates as being the lowest in the US, not those of Latinos.
    Actually, currently, they are on par....but that still wasn't the point you were defending.
    http://www2.ed.gov/documents/press-r...-rate-data.pdf


    Your chart shows wages for white women increasing by more than $5,000 a year (from less than 15k to more than 20k since 1970) while wages for white males have remained more or less steady in the 35k to 40k range, and have now actually dipped below $35,000 a year.
    So...again....this doesn't change the fact that you could not discern from the chart that White women, Black women and men are earning close to the same and far behind White males.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #400
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    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Blacks themselves. They encourage scapegoatism and "blaming whitey". If you're a success doing something besides ballin, slingin, or rappin, you're a sellout. If you speak coherently, you're "talking white". If you're black and support responsibility amongst your own, you're an Uncle Tom.

    Black culture does great at keeping their own people down and explaining who is to blame for it.
    Too simplistic. Your not alone, but blaming the victim is all too common:

    In the 1960s, social psychologist Dr. Melvin Lerner conducted a famous serious of studies in which he found that when participants observed another person receiving electric shocks and were unable to intervene, they began to derogate the victims. The more unfair and severe the suffering appeared to be, the greater the derogation. Follow up studies found that a similar phenomenon occurs when people evaluate victims of car accidents, rape, domestic violence, illness, and poverty. Research conducted by Dr. Ronnie Janoff-Bulman suggests that victims sometimes even derogate themselves, locating the cause of their suffering in their own behavior, but not in their enduring characteristics, in an effort to make negative events seem more controllable and therefore more avoidable in the future.

    Why Do We Blame Victims? | Psychology Today

    This is common with women, minorities, and the poor.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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