View Poll Results: Who is MOST to blame for the problems of African Americans?

Voters
114. You may not vote on this poll
  • GOP

    5 4.39%
  • Black Leadership

    29 25.44%
  • Democrats

    21 18.42%
  • Other

    59 51.75%
Page 33 of 71 FirstFirst ... 23313233343543 ... LastLast
Results 321 to 330 of 701

Thread: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

  1. #321
    Guru

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:23 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,974

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    And whose fault is that? The poor white community doesn't punish whites for trying to get out of the ghetto. The poor Hispanic community doesn't call Hispanics who try to better themselves "Uncle Tomas". It's only the black community who turns on their own for trying to be successful.
    White people call other white people who don't identify with the conservative ideology, or who voted for Obama a "self loathing white".

    Truth be told, I see conservatives tossing around the "white guilt" label more than I see blacks calling other blacks uncle toms.

  2. #322
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Charleston, South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-02-16 @ 01:15 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    28,659

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm glad you basically ignored the question I asked you so you could repeat the same catch phrases over and over again. However, here it is again it's not going away:

    The fact is that they stopped being oppressed and the cultural and social oppression of the past is still an issue for most Irish. How was 1960s Ireland after the British got done with it? It was in shambles. The Irish in America? Thriving thanks to the fact that they were first class citizens. Hell, the Irish had almost become full Americans by the 1930s thanks to the fact that they were white. All of which reinforces the white privilege argument. The Polish, the Germans, the Swiss all were fully integrated into American society (remember: a culture doesn't integrate itself, it has to be integrated) by the time the 1960s rolled around. Blacks were completely rejected by the same society. And this was DURING the supposed period in the 1920s where race relations mended.
    A) We're not talking about mainland Ireland. Just drop that outright.

    B) No, the Irish most certainly were not simply treated as "first class" citizens the moment they got off the boat, nor was any other Catholic (or even non-Protestant) immigrant group. To the contrary, we were rather heavily discriminated against, and even lynched right alongside blacks in some parts of the country.

    Mass racial violence in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    During the late 19th century and early 20th century, Italian Americans were subject to racial violence. One of the largest lynchings in US history occurred in New Orleans in 1891, when eleven Italians were violently murdered in the streets by a large lynch mob. In the 1890s a total of twenty Italians were lynched in the South. Anti-Polish violence also occurred in the same time period.





    C) "Whiteness" as a generalized concept is a thoroughly American concept. It came about specifically because Caucasian Europeans from so many different backgrounds put aside their original heritages and languages, assimilated into mainstream American culture, and interbred with peoples of different countries of origin after landing on American shores. It wasn't something implemented by design, and was actually actively resisted in many cases.

    The simple fact of the matter here remains that there are plenty of groups in this country who have faced historical discrimination and adversity just as bad as African Americans, and managed to thrive in spite of it. Black America is not some precious little unique flower here.

    I will grant you that the Black Community's situation was complicated somewhat by the institutionalized divide enforced by Segregation. However, that would have only affected a few states in the first place, and has been gone for more than 50 years now.

    It is no longer a valid excuse for the such a large portion of the African American population's failure to thrive.

    Ah, so people who were oppressed and are still alive, don't get an excuse for not becoming as successful as those who've had centuries to amass wealth? LOL. You're the type that blames the rape victim aren't ya?
    This doesn't even make sense.

    Only they weren't. Whereas Irish were able to own property and amass wealth countrywide (thanks to Jim Crowe laws, urbanization laws etc), this was denied to blacks countrywide. This is a fact.
    And how many states actually straight out forbade blacks from owning property?

    You are also aware that Jim Crow Laws weren't only targeted against Blacks, correct? In many parts of the country (California, for instance) they were actually most heavily slanted against Chinese immigrants, or Latinos.

    How are Chinese Americans doing these days? Do you see them whining, or rattling on about any sort of historical "victimhood?"

    WHERE? In Harlem? In one neighborhood? In the 1920s? You're simply being disingenuous now. For the most part, black poverty was levels above what it is today. Your claim that black people were coming up in America before the the 1960s just isn't founded on any kind of data but historical revisionism.
    I'm just going to leave these here.



    See that precipitous decline prior to 1970? That was the most economic and social progress the Black Community had ever seen in its entire history.

    Since then, African Americans have basically stagnated, and kept pace with Latinos where poverty rates are concerned (in spite of many Latinos being penniless immigrants fresh off the boat where African Americans have been here for centuries). However, even that is misleading, as Latinos actually have higher median incomes than Blacks, and Asians blow basically everyone out of the water.



    Hell, for your argument to hold water, poverty in the US would have had to gone up by 10% in the last few years instead of down 65%! The fact of the matter is that entering poverty and coming out of poverty works in generational terms. For large groups it doesn't happen over 10 years, it doesn't even happen over 20 years. It takes decades of economic development as well as economic favoritism for it to happen. The same kind of economic development that benefited the Irish must happen for African Americans, only it's not because of the pull yourselves up by the bootstrap mentality. Essentially, it works this way:

    1. America got rich off black backs and their cheap labor.
    2. Blacks ask for a hand in economic terms.
    3. America now tells blacks to get rich on their own.
    I'm sorry, but this is simply complete and total nonsense. No one gave prior immigrants "a hand" in economic terms. They worked for their current status, just as Asian Americans and many Latinos are doing now.

    You're essentially asking the Black Community to bank on something that never has existed, never will exist, and couldn't possibly exist even if some mad man was dumb enough to try it, to solve all of its collective problems, rather than asking them to simply work their way up on their own.

    The unfortunate reality of the situation here is that as long as that kind of "entitlement" centric thinking remains in vogue, African Americans will stay exactly where they are, while everyone else passes them by.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 06-14-14 at 04:09 AM.

  3. #323
    Global Moderator
    Silent Bob for President!

    RedAkston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    33,742
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Well, first of all, no, I'm not "upset." Some of us are capable of looking at problems without losing control of our emotions. Foreign, I know.
    I haven't lost control of my emotions in the slightest.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Planned Parenthood is subject to a lot of the same bureaucratic problems that any other large organization is, but apart from that, they're pretty straight.
    OK, but that has nothing to do with the origins of PP.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    If you're referring to some of Sanger's questionable beliefs, first of all, she's been dead for an awfully long time and we've all moved on. Second, she really wasn't any worse than her surrounding culture. If you want to use that argument, I could just as easily say we should overthrow the Constitution because the founders didn't believe in rights for the poor, women, or black people. It's equally ridiculous. We simply updated the document, like PP updated as well.
    Her beliefs were not "questionable", they were downright racist and abhorrent. To call them "questionable" is the understatement of the year. She was a proponent of eugenics and sought to "assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit" - the "unfit"! You can say that her "surrounding culture" wanted wanted to eliminate the unfit, but that doesn't make it right - then or now.

    And your analogy of overthrowing the Constitution is an odd one and one that doesn't make any sense. The writers of the Constitution created the greatest country on earth. Margaret Sanger sought to "eliminate the unfit". There is a huge difference as nothing in the Constitution, as originally written, that sought to hold anyone back. The definition of the word "person" may have held a different meaning to many back then, but again it wasn't right then and it isn't right now. My point is that PP was rooted in racism during it's creation and it's held up high on a pedestal among liberals and progressives. Drug laws were written to target drug users. To attach "racism" to drug laws is quite a stretch.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Myself and other pro-choicers don't support Sanger's fashionable social Darwinism by supporting the modern PP any more than an American patriot supports slavery and reducing women to legal children by going into the military. The fact that you folks have to resort to something so absurd says a lot about what shaky ground you really stand on.
    "Us folks" aren't resorting to anything and we aren't on "shaky ground". We aren't the hypocrites that "you folks" are.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    And the fact that you have to change the subject entirely to save some face shows that you're on even shakier ground on this particular issue (which is race in America, remember?).
    I didn't change the subject at all. You showed your hypocrisy quite clearly, just as I knew you would.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

  4. #324
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,142

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    I haven't lost control of my emotions in the slightest.

    OK, but that has nothing to do with the origins of PP.

    Her beliefs were not "questionable", they were downright racist and abhorrent. To call them "questionable" is the understatement of the year. She was a proponent of eugenics and sought to "assist the race toward the elimination of the unfit" - the "unfit"! You can say that her "surrounding culture" wanted wanted to eliminate the unfit, but that doesn't make it right - then or now.

    And your analogy of overthrowing the Constitution is an odd one and one that doesn't make any sense. The writers of the Constitution created the greatest country on earth. Margaret Sanger sought to "eliminate the unfit". There is a huge difference as nothing in the Constitution, as originally written, that sought to hold anyone back. The definition of the word "person" may have held a different meaning to many back then, but again it wasn't right then and it isn't right now. My point is that PP was rooted in racism during it's creation and it's held up high on a pedestal among liberals and progressives. Drug laws were written to target drug users. To attach "racism" to drug laws is quite a stretch.

    "Us folks" aren't resorting to anything and we aren't on "shaky ground". We aren't the hypocrites that "you folks" are.

    I didn't change the subject at all. You showed your hypocrisy quite clearly, just as I knew you would.
    I didn't say it makes it right. And my Constitution analogy is precisely on point; you are arguing that modern PP is evil on the basis of the cultural evils of a previous century. Well, I would say the cultural evils in the era of the Constitution were even worse, and far more wide-reaching. So does that make the modern Constitution evil?

    I notice you did nothing at all to address any of my points.

    Sanger did not create PP to eliminate black people, dude. She was a racist social Darwinist, as the majority of white people were at the time, but she was serving white women in abundance. That's like arguing -- to keep with the same analogy -- that the only point of the Constitution was to perpetuate slavery. That's absurd.

    Sanger is dead, dude. People who support PP do not "support Sanger." People who support the Constitution do not support slavery and the degradation of the poor and women.

    And as someone linked to up-thread, the racist roots of the modern drug war are clearly on display, and weren't even particularly secret at the time. You can deny it all you like, but it's right there.

    You didn't change the topic? You went from racial issues to reproductive health care. And what's hilarious is that you lost that diversion as much as you lost on the original topic.

  5. #325
    Global Moderator
    Silent Bob for President!

    RedAkston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    33,742
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I didn't say it makes it right. And my Constitution analogy is precisely on point; you are arguing that modern PP is evil on the basis of the cultural evils of a previous century. Well, I would say the cultural evils in the era of the Constitution were even worse, and far more wide-reaching. So does that make the modern Constitution evil?

    I notice you did nothing at all to address any of my points.

    Sanger did not create PP to eliminate black people, dude. She was a racist social Darwinist, as the majority of white people were at the time, but she was serving white women in abundance. That's like arguing -- to keep with the same analogy -- that the only point of the Constitution was to perpetuate slavery. That's absurd.

    Sanger is dead, dude. People who support PP do not "support Sanger." People who support the Constitution do not support slavery and the degradation of the poor and women.

    And as someone linked to up-thread, the racist roots of the modern drug war are clearly on display, and weren't even particularly secret at the time. You can deny it all you like, but it's right there.

    You didn't change the topic? You went from racial issues to reproductive health care. And what's hilarious is that you lost that diversion as much as you lost on the original topic.
    Blah, blah, blah...

    Actually, I went from drug laws (which the enforcement of may be racially motivated, but their creation being racist is BS - sorry) to PP which is rooted in racist issues from the beginning, do try to keep up. It exposed the hypocrisy and if you can't see that, well, you can't see that.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

  6. #326
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,142

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    Blah, blah, blah...

    Actually, I went from drug laws (which the enforcement of may be racially motivated, but their creation being racist is BS - sorry) to PP which is rooted in racist issues from the beginning, do try to keep up. It exposed the hypocrisy and if you can't see that, well, you can't see that.
    Well, no, but those issues were certainly present at the time. And that is also true of the Constitution, and other types of bigotry as well. But I see you have no intent of facing the argument honestly. "Blah, blah, blah" -- best attempt to run away and hide I've seen in a while.

  7. #327
    Global Moderator
    Silent Bob for President!

    RedAkston's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    33,742
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Well, no, but those issues were certainly present at the time. And that is also true of the Constitution, and other types of bigotry as well. But I see you have no intent of facing the argument honestly. "Blah, blah, blah" -- best attempt to run away and hide I've seen in a while.
    I'm not running. I proved my point and got what I wanted in return. There's no need to discuss this any further with you. Your hypocrisy is crystal clear.
    Welfare (Food Stamps, WIC, etc...) are not entitlements. They are taxpayer funded handouts and shouldn't be called entitlements at all. Social Security and Veteran's benefits are 'Entitlements' because the people receiving them are entitled to them. They were earned and paid for by the recipients.

  8. #328
    Sage
    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    RVA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    18,142

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAkston View Post
    I'm not running. I proved my point and got what I wanted in return. There's no need to discuss this any further with you. Your hypocrisy is crystal clear.
    Uh, where, precisely? All you did was say "nuh-uh" and ignore everything else.

    Gonna try again or are we wrapped up here?

  9. #329
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by opendebate View Post
    You might be interested in reading about something called "Internalized Oppression" it's about how oppressed people (women being the example I learned this through) adopt or buying into the value judgments made of them.
    I am quite aware of it. It's a shame that most people aren't

  10. #330
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,549

    Re: Who do you blame for the problems of African Americans?? [W:98]

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    So what are you saying?
    That wanting to fit in (to "black society") often means doing things that are counter to what is best for the individual. What other reason would a behavior be considered to be "acting white"?

    Stuart Buck has a startling explanation for Acting White.*

    I am saying that "black culture" exists in the US and that black's themselves seek to conform to attitudes that show racial unity rather than individually examine what actually works to get ahead in a "white world".

    The Cold Hard Truth About Black Culture | RedState

    5 things to know about black culture now - CNN.com

Page 33 of 71 FirstFirst ... 23313233343543 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •