View Poll Results: Should the words "Under God" be in the pledge of allegiance?

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  • Yes

    21 27.63%
  • No

    55 72.37%
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Thread: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

  1. #71
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    It's there, so let it stay there. I said it for years and it didn't harm me. My kids say it every day and none of them know any religion.

  2. #72
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It might have meant that to some when it was added in 1954, just nine years after the original Pledge was adopted, not the 80's, but there was absolutely no requirement of any kind that you were required to see it as either Christian or anti-soviet or anything else. All 50 state Constitutions, 48 or 49 in their Preambles, refer to God or a Creator/higher power, again in reference to the historical concept of a universal truth that the nation was founded on. Nobody is required to believe that such God is a person or to worship that God in any way, shape, or form. Nor is anybody allowed to be forbidden to do so.

    It is a historical concept, not a principle of religious belief.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It might have meant that to some when it was added in 1954, just nine years after the original Pledge was adopted, not the 80's, but there was absolutely no requirement of any kind that you were required to see it as either Christian or anti-soviet or anything else. All 50 state Constitutions, 48 or 49 in their Preambles, refer to God or a Creator/higher power, again in reference to the historical concept of a universal truth that the nation was founded on. Nobody is required to believe that such God is a person or to worship that God in any way, shape, or form. Nor is anybody allowed to be forbidden to do so.

    It is a historical concept, not a principle of religious belief.
    Nope. In 1954, it was Cold War politics in cahoots with Christian lobbying that found "under God" added. As to the later, "under God" was promoted to Eisenhower by the Knights of Columbus, a Christian organization, and his own Methodist minister. "God" with a capital "G" is a proper name and his used as a primary name for the god of the Christians.

    "FROM THIS DAY FORWARD, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural school house, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty. To anyone who truly loves America, nothing could be more inspiring than to contemplate this rededication of our youth, on each school morning, to our country's true meaning."
    -- Statement by the President Eisenhower Upon Signing Bill To Include the Words "Under God" in the Pledge to the Flag.
    June 14, 1954

    Clearly meant to be a reference to the Christian God (maybe you could squeeze in Jewish). Clearly intended to indoctrinate god-belief along with the rest of the socialist propaganda the Pledge was written to indoctrinate.

    So, yeah, you could hear "under God" in some other way than Christians using the government to indoctrinate other people's kids in a specific religious belief and its diety. But that isn't the way it was intended.

  3. #73
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    "...By June 29, 1892, Bellamy and Upham had arranged for Congress and President Benjamin Harrison to announce a proclamation making the public school flag ceremony the center of the Columbus Day celebrations (this was issued as Presidential Proclamation 335). Subsequently, the Pledge was first used in public schools on October 12, 1892, during Columbus Day observances organized to coincide with the opening of the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, Illinois.[11]



    ..Swearing of the Pledge is accompanied by a salute. An early version of the salute, adopted in 1892, was known as the Bellamy salute. It started with the hand outstretched toward the flag, palm down, and ended with the palm up. Because of the similarity between the Bellamy salute and the Nazi salute, developed later, the United States Congress instituted the hand-over-the-heart gesture as the salute to be rendered by civilians during the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem in the United States, instead of the Bellamy salute....

    ....1940 the Supreme Court, in Minersville School District v. Gobitis, ruled that students in public schools, including the respondents in that case, Jehovah's Witnesses who considered the flag salute to be idolatry, could be compelled to swear the Pledge. A rash of mob violence and intimidation against Jehovah's Witnesses followed the ruling. In 1943 in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette the Supreme Court reversed its decision..."
    Wikipedia
    There wasn't just a similarity in the salute. The fascists got it from admiring previous decades of American children doing it!

  4. #74
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by LovingCommie View Post
    It was written by a democratic socialist, but that's it.
    Oh no. Much more than that.
    Francis Bellamy, the author of the Pledge, was a former Baptist minister who preached that Jesus was a socialist and advocated income taxation, central banking, nationalized education, nationalization of industry, and other tenets of socialism. His challenge was how to replace the federalist view of the country (where states and individual rights were sovereign) with a nationalist one that would pave the foundation for a central socialist government.

    The “one nation, indivisible” wording was especially important to Bellamy for achieving his vision of socialism through a consolidated, monopoly government. He even considered adding the the socialist bywords, “fraternity and equality”, but knew that state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans.

    Re-education of the public would prove difficult. But if American youth could to be taught “loyalty to the state”, it would pave the way for the socialist utopia that was described in his famous socialist cousin Edward Bellamy’s ‘Looking Backward”. The place to start would need to be primary education. The public schools could be used teach blind obedience to the central state. They planned a “National Public School Celebration” in 1892, which was the first national propaganda campaign on behalf of the Pledge of Allegiance. It was a massive campaign that involved government schools and politicians throughout the country. The government schools were promoted, along with the Pledge, while private schools, especially parochial ones, were criticized. Thus preparing the ground for the acceptance of socialism in the hearts and minds of the youth.

    What's Conservative about the Pledge of Allegiance? | Cato Institute

  5. #75
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tothian View Post
    I don't like it when people remove God from everything.
    And, I don't like it when people try to legislate religious ideas onto my children.

  6. #76
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    It's there, so let it stay there. I said it for years and it didn't harm me. My kids say it every day and none of them know any religion.
    My kids don't say it and they have been prodded with other kid's feet, questioned in front of the class by the teacher, asked "are you a terrorist or something?" The practical issue here is that kids who don't say the Pledge - for whatever reason - know that they don't have to; the kids who say the Pledge DON'T know that they don't have to. This makes the abstainers suspect in every way.

  7. #77
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterLiberty View Post
    IF we have to pull the plegde from school because its "indoctrination" then maybe we should pull FDR and the NEW Deal from history classes because it "indoctrinates" kids to believe that the NEW Deal and socialism saved america (when it really lengthened the depression 5 years.) Lets pull abraham lincoln out of the history books because it "indoctrinates" kids to believe that Lincoln was a good president although he overstepped almost ALL of the boundaries of his powers as president. Ohhh and uhhh shaking hands and saying "good game" after gym class or sporting events indoctrinates kids to congradulate losers.... oh my I've gone on another awful somewhat snyde and rude satirical rant.... oh my.
    If we pull indoctrination out of schools, kids won't have a reason to go to school any longer.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #78
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hifi View Post
    My kids don't say it and they have been prodded with other kid's feet, questioned in front of the class by the teacher, asked "are you a terrorist or something?" The practical issue here is that kids who don't say the Pledge - for whatever reason - know that they don't have to; the kids who say the Pledge DON'T know that they don't have to. This makes the abstainers suspect in every way.
    So? Report the teachers to the school board. Teachers aren't supposed to ask kids if they're terrorists. What does that have to do with my post?

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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Are you saying the founders wanted a Chinese style republic?
    if the founders had wanted a representative democracy.....then they would have made the senate and the president a direct election by the people.......they didn't.

    the U.S. was created a republic based on the Roman Republic of antiquity..........NOT the modern day interpretation of a republic.

    to the founders a.......... democratic republic is an oxymoron.

    a republic of the founders is a "mixed government" [federalist 40], power is NOT directly place all of the people's hands, they only have 50% direct power.

    power is divide into 2 half's....the people, and the state legislatures.[pre 17th amendment]

    by having power divided, this prevents tyranny.... because 1 single entity does not have all the power to become tyrannical, not the people nor the state legislatures.

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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson View Post
    I saw this poll elsewhere and decided to post it on here. I'm sorry ahead of time if this poll has been done already.

    Man a lot of God haters in this forum. They will pay on judgment day.
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

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