View Poll Results: Should the words "Under God" be in the pledge of allegiance?

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  • Yes

    21 27.63%
  • No

    55 72.37%
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Thread: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

  1. #61
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Did you know that the under God phrase wasn't in the pledge until the early-1950s? It was added to harass 'godless' commies.

    The founders wisely did not dictate our language, borders, and culture in the constitution, even the pledge does not mention those aspects of our nation. The USA that the Founders intended was a (representational) democracy free from control by royalty, aristocrats and state-mandated or sponsored religion.
    no no!........never intended to a democratic form of government

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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    I disagree that indoctrination necessarily entails the successful conditioning of a mind. So, the question as to whether I "didn't mean what I said" semantically is still up in the air. However, I am completely uninterested in debating that matter, and am simply registering my reservation.
    Yeah, okay, whatevs.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  3. #63
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    "...By June 29, 1892, Bellamy and Upham had arranged for Congress and President Benjamin Harrison to announce a proclamation making the public school flag ceremony the center of the Columbus Day celebrations (this was issued as Presidential Proclamation 335). Subsequently, the Pledge was first used in public schools on October 12, 1892, during Columbus Day observances organized to coincide with the opening of the World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago, Illinois.[11]



    ..Swearing of the Pledge is accompanied by a salute. An early version of the salute, adopted in 1892, was known as the Bellamy salute. It started with the hand outstretched toward the flag, palm down, and ended with the palm up. Because of the similarity between the Bellamy salute and the Nazi salute, developed later, the United States Congress instituted the hand-over-the-heart gesture as the salute to be rendered by civilians during the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem in the United States, instead of the Bellamy salute....

    ....1940 the Supreme Court, in Minersville School District v. Gobitis, ruled that students in public schools, including the respondents in that case, Jehovah's Witnesses who considered the flag salute to be idolatry, could be compelled to swear the Pledge. A rash of mob violence and intimidation against Jehovah's Witnesses followed the ruling. In 1943 in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette the Supreme Court reversed its decision..."
    Wikipedia
    The dates I provided for the 'official' adoption of the Pledge of Allegiance were from memory. Those posted on the site linked below are a few years different:

    Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance in 1942, but in 1943, the Supreme Court ruled that public school students could not be forced to recite it.

    The words "under God" were added in 1954 by then President Eisenhower, who stated at the time, "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."
    Brief history of the Pledge of Allegiance

    And from the ReligiousTolerance site who I have caught in some factual errors and are not above presenting their information with some bias, but who usually do a better-than-average job in their research:

    . . .its original form, it read:

    "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

    It was first published in a children's magazine Youth's Companion, in 1892 to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Columbus' arrival in the Americas. 4 The word "to" was added before "the Republic" in 1892-OCT. He considered including the word "equality" in the pledge, but decided against it because he knew that many Americans at the time were opposed to equality for women and African-Americans. Opposition to equality continues today; a sizeable minority of American adults remain opposed to equal rights for women, gays and lesbians, and transsexuals.

    By 1924, the "National Flag Conference, under the leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Francis Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored." 3

    Most Jehovah's Witness children refuse to acknowledge the flag. In 1940, the U.S. Supreme Court denied children the right of freedom of speech. The court ruled that school boards could compel their students to recite the Pledge. The court reversed itself three years later. 4

    In 1953, the Roman Catholic men's group, the Knights of Columbus mounted a campaign to add the words "under God" to the Pledge. The nation was suffering through the height of the cold war, and the McCarthy communist witch hunt. Partly in reaction to these factors, a reported 15 resolutions were initiated in Congress to change the pledge. They got nowhere until Rev. George Docherty (1911 - 2008) preached a sermon that was attended by President Eisenhower and the national press corps on 1954-FEB-7. His sermon said in part:

    "Apart from the mention of the phrase 'the United States of America,' it could be the pledge of any republic. In fact, I could hear little Muscovites repeat a similar pledge to their hammer-and-sickle flag in Moscow."
    After the service, President Eisenhower said that he agreed with the sermon. In the following weeks, the news spread, and public opinion grew. Three days later, Senator Homer Ferguson, (R-MI), sponsored a bill to add God to the Pledge. It was approved as a joint resolution 1954-JUN-8. It was signed into law on Flag Day, JUN-14. President Eisenhower said at the time:

    "From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty." 4

    With the addition of "under God" to the Pledge, it became both "a patriotic oath and a public prayer...Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change." 3. . . .

    The U.S. Supreme Court declined to review this change to the Pledge. The Court has commented in passing on the motto saying that: "[o]ur previous opinions have considered in dicta the motto and the pledge [of allegiance], characterizing them as consistent with the proposition that government may not communicate an endorsement of religious belief." [Allegheny, 492 U.S.]
    Pledge of Allegiance and its "under God" phrase

    And as for the best commentary on the Pledge of Allegiance I have EVER heard, it was this one:

    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    IF we have to pull the plegde from school because its "indoctrination" then maybe we should pull FDR and the NEW Deal from history classes because it "indoctrinates" kids to believe that the NEW Deal and socialism saved america (when it really lengthened the depression 5 years.) Lets pull abraham lincoln out of the history books because it "indoctrinates" kids to believe that Lincoln was a good president although he overstepped almost ALL of the boundaries of his powers as president. Ohhh and uhhh shaking hands and saying "good game" after gym class or sporting events indoctrinates kids to congradulate losers.... oh my I've gone on another awful somewhat snyde and rude satirical rant.... oh my.

  5. #65
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ad_Captandum View Post
    Why... How?

    Because it's declaring loyalty to the state?
    Because it was written by a socialist, its purpose to teach children to elevate the state over the individual, and that the nature of the US is to be an indivisible republic forever, which goes against the ideals of the founding fathers. The guy who wrote it wanted to include a reference to equality, but knew it wouldn't get passed by the state PC censors, who were against equality for blacks and women at the time.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  6. #66
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no no!........never intended to a democratic form of government
    Are you saying the founders wanted a Chinese style republic?
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  7. #67
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    I don't like it when people remove God from everything.

  8. #68
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

    If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson View Post
    I saw this poll elsewhere and decided to post it on here. I'm sorry ahead of time if this poll has been done already.
    You didn't include my answer: It doesn't matter.

  10. #70
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    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tothian View Post
    I don't like it when people remove God from everything.
    Why? We're not talking about removing god from everything, just something kids are forced to pledge to every day.

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