View Poll Results: Should the words "Under God" be in the pledge of allegiance?

Voters
76. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    21 27.63%
  • No

    55 72.37%
Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 89

Thread: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

  1. #31
    Sage
    Dezaad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Last Seen
    06-28-15 @ 10:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    5,058
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Dude, you need to lighten up. That was for militant atheist consumption in a thread that I find ridiculous and petty.
    You sure did get militant and petty when I put the shoe on the other foot though. WOW!
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  2. #32
    Guru
    soot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    04-25-17 @ 03:28 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,308

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    That doesn't mean it wasn't intended as indoctrination. You are simply arguing that it is ineffective indoctrination.
    You actually made two claims.

    That it was intended to be indoctrination and that it amounts to exactly that:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad
    ...it amounts to exactly what the people who changed it intended it to be: indoctrination of children that proper Americans believe in god.
    Even if we take your claim that it was intended to be indoctrination as true at face value (it may or may not be, I don't really know, but note that I am taking it as an assumption because you've not actually proven it) that still leaves your claim that it successfully amounts to indoctrination unproven, in my experience and in the experience of MANY other Americans:

    "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?-z6yupztzt06jbnlrpvblwa-jpg

    The bottom line is that you've failed to prove either point to any real degree of sufficiency.

    As it stands you're simply making claims, not proving points.

    Now, the claims you're making may be very true and very accurate for all I know.

    I see things, and have experienced things contrary to your claims, but I don't insist that my anecdotal experience is absolute proof of anything.

    But you've yet to prove them (note: making claims does not prove them as true, nor does insisting that they're true absent any supporting evidence prove the claims are true).
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  3. #33
    Sage
    shrubnose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Last Seen
    11-29-17 @ 03:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,851
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    How is whether the pledge is forced or not relevant to it having the words "under God" or not??
    ?



    If the words 'under God' are in the pledge and anyone is forced to say it, that's a violation of the 1st Amendment.

  4. #34
    User LovingCommie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Communist
    Posts
    10

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    It was only added because the Soviet Union was very atheistic so we used religion to make kids even more anti-communist without them even knowing. Anyone who argues that it should be there is completely ignoring the constitution and the separation of the church and the sate. As other users have posted above, put any other religion was put in place and people would riot up in arms against it.

  5. #35
    Sage
    Dezaad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Last Seen
    06-28-15 @ 10:43 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    5,058
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    You actually made two claims.

    That it was intended to be indoctrination and that it amounts to exactly that:



    Even if we take your claim that it was intended to be indoctrination as true at face value (it may or may not be, I don't really know, but note that I am taking it as an assumption because you've not actually proven it) that still leaves your claim that it successfully amounts to indoctrination unproven, in my experience and in the experience of MANY other Americans:

    "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?-z6yupztzt06jbnlrpvblwa-jpg

    The bottom line is that you've failed to prove either point to any real degree of sufficiency.

    As it stands you're simply making claims, not proving points.

    Now, the claims you're making may be very true and very accurate for all I know.

    I see things, and have experienced things contrary to your claims, but I don't insist that my anecdotal experience is absolute proof of anything.

    But you've yet to prove them (note: making claims does not prove them as true, nor does insisting that they're true absent any supporting evidence prove the claims are true).
    You may take me as having made the claim that children are being successfully indoctrinated. But, I have just told you that was not the claim I was trying to make. I really don't care to claim that it is effective, and it doesn't matter to me with regard to whether the words should be removed. If you insist that it is, and then continue to disprove what YOU say I meant, then you are merely addressing a straw man.

    Again (in new, and probably better, words): The aim of the 'under god' words in the pledge were and are intended as indoctrination. A person can demonstrate this satisfactorily to themselves by both looking at the history of the addition and by doing a little bit of thought experimentation. Imagine replacing 'under god' with 'under no god'. The reaction from advocates of the 'under god' provision would be immediate and virulent. The best explanation for that inevitability would be that they know that the reason they want it in there is indoctrination, and just won't admit it until they are confronted with a stark alternative.

    Now, this does not of course constitute proof in a social science sense. Nevertheless, it is a worthy way to examine the matter. When someone trots in here and doesn't address your point, but instead acts like an ass, you are within the rights of social discourse to assume you have proven your point sufficiently with regard to that person's sensibilities, and that they are just pissed off about it. Doing what I did was a common, and warranted, reaction. Basically I was telling him that I take his foolishness as conceding the point. That assessment still stands.

    As to your points: I concede that successful indoctrination is not proven. I comment again that I don't care, as it really isn't part of my point. I still contend that there is plenty of evidence to tentatively accept that the intent is indoctrination.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

  6. #36
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    01-17-16 @ 05:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,122

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    Who forced anyone to say the pledge?

    Why are we talking about BS like this when a lot of important things are going on?

    If anyone knows, I'd like to know.
    My teachers in K-12 school for 13 years.

    Kids should not be required to do ritual recitations of loyalty that they don't even understand.

    Rewrite: I pledge allegiance to the ideal of liberty and justice for all.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 06-12-14 at 02:31 PM.

  7. #37
    User LovingCommie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Communist
    Posts
    10

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Legally no one can make you say the prayer, but if you're the kid not saying the prayer, it's as awkward as Rosa in the front if the bus. Kids aren't going to think for themselves, they're going to do what everyone else is doing. And by the time that they can think for them self the pledge is already ingrained into their mind.

  8. #38
    Only Losers H8 Capitalism
    Spartacus FPV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In your echo chamber
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    12,893

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Get rid of it, and get god off our money too.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  9. #39
    Sage
    shrubnose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Europe
    Last Seen
    11-29-17 @ 03:46 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    18,851
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    My teachers in K-12 school for 13 years.

    Kids should not be required to do ritual recitations of loyalty that they don't even understand.


    Rewrite: I pledge allegiance to the ideal of liberty and justice for all.



    I agree and I like your version a lot more than the original.

  10. #40
    User LovingCommie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Communist
    Posts
    10

    Re: "Under God" in pledge of allegiance?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    I agree and I like your version a lot more than the original.
    If kids can't legally consent to anything they shouldn't be forced to make any sort of pledge.

Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •