View Poll Results: Is All This Necessary?

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  • Yes

    6 13.04%
  • No

    38 82.61%
  • Possibly. (Explain)

    2 4.35%
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Thread: Is All This Really Necessary?

  1. #151
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    The fundamental danger of MRAPs and other heavy equipment is that the tail wags the dog. Violent crime is currently at an all time low. However, Law Enforcement who obtain such equipment need to justify their purchase and thus end up using it totally inappropriate situations. County Sheriffs are now armed to the teeth for combat that literally never happens within their jurisdiction. So they break out the big guns for routine police work and cause completely unnecessary damage.

  2. #152
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The fundamental danger of MRAPs and other heavy equipment is that the tail wags the dog. Violent crime is currently at an all time low. However, Law Enforcement who obtain such equipment need to justify their purchase and thus end up using it totally inappropriate situations. County Sheriffs are now armed to the teeth for combat that literally never happens within their jurisdiction. So they break out the big guns for routine police work and cause completely unnecessary damage.
    This right here sums up a lot of my feeling towards this topic. Like you said crime is lower than it has been in a long long time yet PD continue to equip their LEOs with more and more military equipment. And as everyone knows once you have bought the equipment and paid for the training they are going to put it to use even if it's unneeded.

  3. #153
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    ...Why because you can't dictate what the police can wear?
    Many neighborhoods already feel like the police are an occupying army that is mostly concerned about using their mostly victimless behavior such as loitering, drinking in parks and drug use and sales to fill (often for-profit) prisons. Community policing, especially having cops walking a beat and getting to know the residents is proven to improve police-community relations and reduce major crimes. A cop dressed in military armor is not in a position to even hear what people are saying to them, much less have real communication. They are also harder to old accountable for their actions because they are hard to identify with their bodies concealed to that degree. It also sens the message that they expect to be violently attacked.

  4. #154
    warrior of the wetlands
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    I have a self-regulating suggestion for dealing with this

    Civilian police departments are not the military. Civilian police have the same limits on engaging criminals as other civilians. they aren't armed for the purpose of offensive actions against hostile military forces. Unlike the military they cannot engage enemies without warning. Military snipers can shoot unsuspecting enemy combatants who are not actively engaging in fighting. The police cannot.

    SO-any weapon civilian police departments have is solely issued for defensive purposes for use in a civilian environment. Thus other civilians should have access to the same weaponry so they can use it for exactly the same purpose-self defense against civilian criminals.



  5. #155
    Supreme knower of all
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by braindrain View Post
    Wow you really don't know much about firearms laws do you. It does not apply to police depts. That is specifically spelled out in the law.
    Wow, you really don't read do you?
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  6. #156
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Many neighborhoods already feel like the police are an occupying army that is mostly concerned about using their mostly victimless behavior such as loitering, drinking in parks and drug use and sales to fill (often for-profit) prisons. Community policing, especially having cops walking a beat and getting to know the residents is proven to improve police-community relations and reduce major crimes. A cop dressed in military armor is not in a position to even hear what people are saying to them, much less have real communication. They are also harder to old accountable for their actions because they are hard to identify with their bodies concealed to that degree. It also sens the message that they expect to be violently attacked.
    I think that yes absolutely police should be out walking around among the community, basically being friendly too the community, and sadly police have moved away from that. But typically the officers all dressed up in that stuff don't wear it on patrol. There is no way I would do it. I live in Texas it's freaking hot here.
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  7. #157
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Civilian police have the same limits on engaging criminals as other civilians...SO-any weapon civilian police departments have is solely issued for defensive purposes for use in a civilian environment. Thus other civilians should have access to the same weaponry so they can use it for exactly the same purpose-self defense against civilian criminals.
    On that basis, the police should only have the same responsibilities regarding criminals as civilians and should only be expected to act reactively and in self defence. Of course then they're not police at all.

    Police are granted rights and tools not necessarily available to the general public because they have responsibilities and duties not held by the general public. They're expected (often legally required) to do things that we're not. You can certainly make arguments regarding specific items but to make a general statement that the police should have exactly the same practical limitations as the general public is ridiculous.

    That's like pilots not being allowed on the flight deck or surgeons not being allowed to cut people open.

  8. #158
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    On that basis, the police should only have the same responsibilities regarding criminals as civilians and should only be expected to act reactively and in self defence. Of course then they're not police at all.

    Police are granted rights and tools not necessarily available to the general public because they have responsibilities and duties not held by the general public. They're expected (often legally required) to do things that we're not. You can certainly make arguments regarding specific items but to make a general statement that the police should have exactly the same practical limitations as the general public is ridiculous.

    That's like pilots not being allowed on the flight deck or surgeons not being allowed to cut people open.
    Like many gun restrictionists you confuse use with possession



  9. #159
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Like many gun restrictionists you confuse use with possession
    Your post referred to both having the weapons and using them and my response was in even more general terms. If you can clarify the distinction between use and possession here, I'd happily respond to that specifically.

    Incidentally, I'd rather you didn't stick any of your pejorative labels on me. I'm Joe and I'm just like me.

  10. #160
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    Re: Is All This Really Necessary?

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    Your post referred to both having the weapons and using them and my response was in even more general terms. If you can clarify the distinction between use and possession here, I'd happily respond to that specifically.

    Incidentally, I'd rather you didn't stick any of your pejorative labels on me. I'm Joe and I'm just like me.
    cops use guns for self defense against criminals.

    why should other citizens be deprived of the tools our dear leaders have decreed are most useful for such defense?



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