View Poll Results: Is making it harder for races to vote racist when the motive is not racial?

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    13 72.22%
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Thread: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vote?

  1. #11
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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Do you think opposing Puerto Rico statehood and/or targeting early voting days for closure to coincide with when a significant turnout from black voters show up in Churches buses on Sunday after church SPECIFICALLY because these minority groups vote democrat, is racist?
    Puerto Rico, like Guam, does not want statehood since the costs outweigh the benefits. As I said before, yes I oppose the restricting of voting days/hours that discourage voting.
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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Puerto Rico, like Guam, does not want statehood since the costs outweigh the benefits. As I said before, yes I oppose the restricting of voting days/hours that discourage voting.

    Last week, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) released a report about the fiscal impact of Puerto Rico statehood on the federal government. The report strongly supports the conclusion that statehood would economically benefit both Puerto Rico and the nation as a whole.


    Read more: With GAO report, momentum builds for Puerto Rican statehood | TheHill
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    On November 6, 2012, eligible voters in the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico were presented with two questions. First, when asked to approve or reject Puerto Rico's current status as a commonwealth (or territory), voters rejected it 54% to 46%.

    Second, when then asked to choose their preferred status for Puerto Rico, 61.15% of those who marked an option chose statehood in the United States, while 24% of ballots were submitted blank.


    Statehood movement in Puerto Rico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You might not be aware of the growing momentum in PR for statehood, but assuming the people want it, do you think its racist to oppose statehood out of a desire to keep Puerto Ricans from voting in federal elections because they'll add 2 Democrat US Senators to the US Senate, 7 US Democrat Congressmen in the US House of Representatives and 9 Electoral College votes.


    BTW: Most of the opposition to statehood in PR, which is limited, stems from a nationalist Hispanic pride faction.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 06-08-14 at 10:23 AM.
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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    Last week, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) released a report about the fiscal impact of Puerto Rico statehood on the federal government. The report strongly supports the conclusion that statehood would economically benefit both Puerto Rico and the nation as a whole.


    Read more: With GAO report, momentum builds for Puerto Rican statehood | TheHill
    Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook


    On November 6, 2012, eligible voters in the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico were presented with two questions. First, when asked to approve or reject Puerto Rico's current status as a commonwealth (or territory), voters rejected it 54% to 46%.

    Second, when then asked to choose their preferred status for Puerto Rico, 61.15% of those who marked an option chose statehood in the United States, while 24% of ballots were submitted blank.


    Statehood movement in Puerto Rico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You might not be aware of the growing momentum in PR for statehood, but assuming the people want it, do you think its racist to oppose statehood out of a desire to keep Puerto Ricans from voting because they'll add 2 Democrat US Senators to the US Senate, 7 US Democrat Congressmen in the US House of Representatives and 9 Electoral College votes.


    BTW: Most of the opposition to statehood in PR, which is limited, stems from a nationalist Hispanic pride faction.
    While the federal political power of Puerto Rico would be increased one must still consider what a "special" status it now enjoys. The per capita GDP of Puerto Rico is way below (about 1/3 of the US average with 41% now below the FPL) that of any current US state meaning that it would instantly become a full blown welfare state and lose its "special" tax status as a US territory.


    By some economists Puerto Rico's economy is considered somewhat fictitious. Puerto Rico has very few natural resources of economic value and its economy relies mainly on Federal Aid from the United States Government, which depends on the industrialization programs and the tax incentives that U.S. offers. Economists believe that reinstating IRS Section 936 or making IRS Section 30A permanent for U.S. firms operating in Puerto Rico is not the best way to stimulate sustainable development on the island.
    Puerto Rico Economy
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    While the federal political power of Puerto Rico would be increased one must still consider what a "special" status it now enjoys. The per capita GDP of Puerto Rico is way below (about 1/3 of the US average with 41% now below the FPL) that of any current US state meaning that it would instantly become a full blown welfare state and lose its "special" tax status as a US territory.




    Puerto Rico Economy
    But my question is would it be racist to oppose Puerto Rico statehood specifically to prevent Puerto Ricans from voting in federal elections, who are American citizens from birth, because they will vote democrat? That is unless they relocate to the mainland, which over 50% have.

    And btw, Americans born on the mainland lose their ability to vote in federal elections if they relocate to Puerto Rico.
    Last edited by Smeagol; 06-08-14 at 11:05 AM.
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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    But my question is would it be racist to oppose Puerto Rico statehood specifically to prevent Puerto Ricans from voting in federal elections, who are American citizens from birth, because they will vote democrat? That is unless they relocate to the mainland, which over 50% have.

    And btw, Americans born on the mainland lose their ability to vote in federal elections if they relocate to Puerto Rico.
    Race has nothing to do with Puerto Rico's statehood; obviously adding a state with 41% of its households qualifying for "safety net" assistance would vote for more of it. Puerto Rico is rich compared to its neighbors yet poor compared to all other US states.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Race has nothing to do with Puerto Rico's statehood; obviously adding a state with 41% of its households qualifying for "safety net" assistance would vote for more of it. Puerto Rico is rich compared to its neighbors yet poor compared to all other US states.
    If I'm not mistaken, Puerto Ricans living in poverty already receive welfare funded by the federal government. Gaining statehood would not have any impact on federal entitlements, unless I'm mistaken.

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/13-p...2-billion-2012
    Last edited by Smeagol; 06-08-14 at 11:20 AM.
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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, Puerto Ricans living in poverty already receive welfare funded by the federal government. Gaining statehood would not has any impact on federal entitlements, unless I'm mistaken.
    While the residents of Puerto Rico now get a lot of federal assistance it pales compred to what they would get as a state. Medicaid and the EITC alone would cost the nation billions more annually.

    Welfare in Puerto Rico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    You might not be aware of the growing momentum in PR for statehood, but assuming the people want it, do you think its racist to oppose statehood out of a desire to keep Puerto Ricans from voting in federal elections because they'll add 2 Democrat US Senators to the US Senate, 7 US Democrat Congressmen in the US House of Representatives and 9 Electoral College votes.
    I wouldn't be so sure about that.

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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    While the residents of Puerto Rico now get a lot of federal assistance it pales compred to what they would get as a state. Medicaid and the EITC alone would cost the nation billions more annually.

    Welfare in Puerto Rico - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I understand there can be people who like you I gather oppose Puerto Rico statehood not because of a desire to keep them from voting in federal elections but a new perceived tax burden on the federal treasury. I'm not asking about that. I'm curious as to whether people think its racist to oppose Puerto Rico statehood because they don't want Puerto Ricans voting. That is those who choose to live in Puerto Rico. They can already vote if they move to the mainland, a big part of why Florida is apparently a blue state now.

    Wrt adding to welfare costs, I might be wrong but from what I understand, it turns out to be a wash. I think there's a lot of confusion on US territories. They basically operate as states already with a handful of exceptions.

    1. Anyone born in a US territory is a US citizen from birth, no different than being born in Ohio. Citizens living in the US territories carry American passports. I was born in Illinois but I lived in a territory when I got my first passport. The only difference is instead of my application being processed by the US state department directly, it was processed by the Lt. Governor's office. No idea why, but that's how it was done. I not sure if its still being done that way; I sure hope not in our post 9/11 world.

    2. Tax collection. Residents of the territories do not pay federal income or other federal taxes to the IRS. They do however file 1040 each April 15 and pay taxes based on the federal tax code. However, instead of that money going to Washington, it stays in the territory and acts as a type of "state income tax" spent by the territorial legislature locally. I think tariffs on imports go to Washington. The fact that residents of Puerto Rico will begin to send their 1040 and corporate taxes to Washington for the first time should offset any new entitlement burden.

    3. Territorial residents, provided they are US citizens, may only vote in local elections. This applies to native Puerto Ricans and mainlanders who have relocated there. Local elections do include presidential primaries but not the general election.

    4. Federal law applies including federal courts up and including appealing to the US Supreme Court.

    5. People wanting to join the military, join the US military. In the past when there was a military draft, people in the territories were drafted along with people from Ohio and Michigan. There are territory National Guards who are commanded by the governor and can be federalized by the president. An attack on a US territory is an attack on the United States; example: Pearl Harbor.

    6. People born in a US territory may run for president. Example: Barry Goldwater.

    7. The US postal service handles mail delivery, a lot more efficiently than on the mainland I'll add. Instead of expensive home delivery, most people pick up mail at community centralized mailboxes or at the post office. The same .49 cent stamp that gets a letter sent to the other side of your own town covers the postage to or from a territory. Some phone companies however treat the US territories as international roaming and long distance. Some treat them as part of the US. My cell phone treats Puerto Rico as the US. My guess is when PR becomes a state all the phone companies will start to include domestic roaming and long distance.

    8. No US Senators. Their representatives in the House are called delegates and may not vote on laws. They can introduce bills, vote in committee, chair committees, nominate students to the military academies, represent the US overseas as part if congressional delegations and have the same salaries and perks as other congressmen.
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

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    Re: Do you assume ppl are racist if they want to make it hard for others races to vot

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I understand there can be people who like you I gather oppose Puerto Rico statehood not because of a desire to keep them from voting in federal elections but a new perceived tax burden on the federal treasury. I'm not asking about that. I'm curious as to whether people think its racist to oppose Puerto Rico statehood because they don't want Puerto Ricans voting. That is those who choose to live in Puerto Rico. They can already vote if they move to the mainland, a big part of why Florida is apparently a blue state now.

    Wrt adding to welfare costs, I might be wrong but from what I understand, it turns out to be a wash. I think there's a lot of confusion on US territories. They basically operate as states already with a handful of exceptions.

    1. Anyone born in a US territory is a US citizen from birth, no different than being born in Ohio. Citizens living in the US territories carry American passports. I was born in Illinois but I lived in a territory when I got my first passport. The only difference is instead of my application being processed by the US state department directly, it was processed by the Lt. Governor's office. No idea why, but that's how it was done. I not sure if its still being done that way; I sure hope not in our post 9/11 world.

    2. Tax collection. Residents of the territories do not pay federal income or other federal taxes to the IRS. They do however file 1040 each April 15 and pay taxes based on the federal tax code. However, instead of that money going to Washington, it stays in the territory and acts as a type of "state income tax" spent by the territorial legislature locally. I think tariffs on imports go to Washington. The fact that residents of Puerto Rico will begin to send their 1040 and corporate taxes to Washington for the first time should offset any new entitlement burden.

    3. Territorial residents, provided they are US citizens, may only vote in local elections. This applies to native Puerto Ricans and mainlanders who have relocated there. Local elections do include presidential primaries but not the general election.

    4. Federal law applies including federal courts up and including appealing to the US Supreme Court.

    5. People wanting to join the military, join the US military. In the past when there was a military draft, people in the territories were drafted along with people from Ohio and Michigan. There are territory National Guards who are commanded by the governor and can be federalized by the president. An attack on a US territory is an attack on the United States; example: Pearl Harbor.

    6. People born in a US territory may run for president. Example: Barry Goldwater.

    7. The US postal service handles mail delivery, a lot more efficiently than on the mainland I'll add. Instead of expensive home delivery, most people pick up mail at community centralized mailboxes or at the post office. The same .49 cent stamp that gets a letter sent to the other side of your own town covers the postage to or from a territory. Some phone companies however treat the US territories as international roaming and long distance. Some treat them as part of the US. My cell phone treats Puerto Rico as the US. My guess is when PR becomes a state all the phone companies will start to include domestic roaming and long distance.

    8. No US Senators. Their representatives in the House are called delegates and may not vote on laws. They can introduce bills, vote in committee, chair committees, nominate students to the military academies, represent the US overseas as part if congressional delegations and have the same salaries and perks as other congressmen.
    #2 above is nonsense. The median annual income in Puerto Rico is under $20K which will not generate additional tax reveue close to what will then flow back to that island state.

    In the midst of this economic malaise, the island’s poverty rate is at an all-time high of 44.9 percent. Now, in comparison, Mississippi has the highest poverty rate on the mainland of the United States at 24 percent. Puerto Rico has almost twice the number of people in poverty as the worst state in the United States.
    Puerto Rico's Economy Is In Shambles, It Must Be Rejuvenated | Fox News Latino

    EDIT: added census data

    http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acsbr11-02.pdf
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-08-14 at 01:26 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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