View Poll Results: Has Obama been a good President?

Voters
94. You may not vote on this poll
  • Im a right leaning American, yes.

    6 6.38%
  • Im a left leaning American, yes.

    20 21.28%
  • Im not American, yes.

    4 4.26%
  • Im a right leaning American, no.

    52 55.32%
  • Im a left leaning American, no.

    9 9.57%
  • Im not American, no.

    3 3.19%
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Thread: Has Obama been a good President?

  1. #371
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    times have changed a LOT since the days of Lincoln. Our military is a huge complicated machine. War is different today too.
    Yeah, I thought about that when I was commenting. But I'd say the only major difference is that things happen MUCH more quickly. And even that is still often just a battlefield consideration. The type of judgements involved at a political level have NOT changed, imo. Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, as far back as you can go, it's political judgement about how people react to things and how societies function that's required.

    Now I'm sure that stuff has changed too — a modern, industrial society probably doesn't react to things the way an ancient, agrarian one does. But you yerself point to Sun Tzu. His wisdom, insight, whatever you call it, is rightly held up as timeless. Btw, I did study his work years ago in school, and I would agree that, like any great philosophical treatise, it's the kind of thing that one can benefit from reviewing and contemplating repeatedly.

    I trained to be a public policy analyst, but along the way I studied a LOT of history and philosophy, and it seems like I keep going back to that, rather than economic and statistical models, in my efforts to understand things. Lately I've been reviewing some of my notes on the writings of Marcus Aurelius, particularly his Meditations, written while campaigning.

    "Remember that to change thy opinion and to follow him who corrects thy error is as consistent with freedom as it is to persist in thy error."

    "Thou sufferest this justly: for thou choosest rather to become good to-morrow than to be good to-day."

    >>back in those days, more men WERE actually familiar with how to wage and manage a war. It was just the way things were back then when men were expected to fight at a moment's notice. He was probably very familiar with the operations of the military for the times.

    I don't agree. I'd say they were much more focused on scratching a living in agriculture. The regular Army was quite small and my guess is that militias were not very organized or proficient. Lincoln was a lawyer and a politician. I expect he was quite unfamiliar with fighting and managing a war.

    >>I believe that politics are what loses wars. I don't believe America will ever win another war if we don't learn from our mistakes. I've read and seen documentaries about Vietnam, and how mistakes were made because of the fact that it was a "political" war.

    I'd say all wars are political. Bad politics makes for bad wars.

    >>About TARP, I thought we should have let those companies claim bankruptcy. Though it would have been painful, I think it would have reeked less havoc on the economy in the long run.

    In my view, without TARP there was a large risk of a cascading collapse of the financial system and unimaginable damage.
    Last edited by mmi; 06-13-14 at 09:21 PM.

  2. #372
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    I could not respond to the poll, because I am a moderate american. I am fiscally conservative, socially progressive. I lean right on some issues, and left on others. I'll give Obama a B so far. I'll keep watching to see how Obamacare turns out in a couple of years. It's too soon to tell IMO.
    I give Obama an F-.

  3. #373
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I disagree. I think the hate displayed is pretty much equal for both. We are . . . how many years into the Obama presidency, and people are STILL blaming and talking about Bush. Obama assured us that he could handle the job. Well, I disagree and have always disagreed.

    Like I said in another post, if times were good, he might be a great president, but with the problems that our country is facing, he just doesn't have what it takes IMO. I'm actually concerned with what is happening in Iraq. This is MORE than just a blame game for some of us, and when you DO want to place blame, well it has to go to the current POTUS.
    I never understand this. What Bush did he did. That doesn't change ever. Not now under Obama. Not under any president of any party in the future. What he did, he did. He can never say he wasn't him who did it.

    And yes, times matter. But I but there would still be excessive exaggeration over everything, just as we see now.

    And no, blame lies where the blame lies, and not who is in office. The trouble with Iraq continues to be that we invaded in the first place. We will never recover from that. It will only be when do we cut our loses and leave it to the Iraqis.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #374
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Bush lied to America and caused many people to die. Obama tried to give Americans affordable health care.

    Lets call it a wash, eh?

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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I never understand this. What Bush did he did. That doesn't change ever. Not now under Obama. Not under any president of any party in the future. What he did, he did. He can never say he wasn't him who did it.

    And yes, times matter. But I but there would still be excessive exaggeration over everything, just as we see now.

    And no, blame lies where the blame lies, and not who is in office. The trouble with Iraq continues to be that we invaded in the first place. We will never recover from that. It will only be when do we cut our loses and leave it to the Iraqis.
    With congressional approval.

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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi View Post
    Yeah, I thought about that when I was commenting. But I'd say the only major difference is that things happen MUCH more quickly. And even that is still often just a battlefield consideration. The type of judgements involved at a political level have NOT changed, imo. Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Mesopotamian, as far back as you can go, it's political judgement about how people react to things and how societies function that's required.

    Now I'm sure that stuff has changed too — a modern, industrial society probably doesn't react to things the way an ancient, agrarian one does. But you yerself point to Sun Tzu. His wisdom, insight, whatever you call it, is rightly held up as timeless. Btw, I did study his work years ago in school, and I would agree that, like any great philosophical treatise, it's the kind of thing that one can benefit from reviewing and contemplating repeatedly.

    I trained to be a public policy analyst, but along the way I studied a LOT of history and philosophy, and it seems like I keep going back to that, rather than economic and statistical models, in my efforts to understand things. Lately I've been reviewing some of my notes on the writings of Marcus Aurelius, particularly his Meditations, written while campaigning.

    "Remember that to change thy opinion and to follow him who corrects thy error is as consistent with freedom as it is to persist in thy error."

    "Thou sufferest this justly: for thou choosest rather to become good to-morrow than to be good to-day."

    >>back in those days, more men WERE actually familiar with how to wage and manage a war. It was just the way things were back then when men were expected to fight at a moment's notice. He was probably very familiar with the operations of the military for the times.

    I don't agree. I'd say they were much more focused on scratching a living in agriculture. The regular Army was quite small and my guess is that militias were not very organized or proficient. Lincoln was a lawyer and a politician. I expect he was quite unfamiliar with fighting and managing a war.

    >>I believe that politics are what loses wars. I don't believe America will ever win another war if we don't learn from our mistakes. I've read and seen documentaries about Vietnam, and how mistakes were made because of the fact that it was a "political" war.

    I'd say all wars are political. Bad politics makes for bad wars.

    >>About TARP, I thought we should have let those companies claim bankruptcy. Though it would have been painful, I think it would have reeked less havoc on the economy in the long run.

    In my view, without TARP there was a large risk of a cascading collapse of the financial system and unimaginable damage.
    Well, although I can agree with some of your finer points (very good ones BTW), I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about Obama presidency legacy.

  7. #377
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    With congressional approval.
    Obama voted against the Iraq invasion. Seems he was the leader you needed, after all.

  8. #378
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    No, he's been mediocre. No better or worse than Reagan and Carter, but superior to W. Bush and his father.
    Last edited by Puigb; 06-14-14 at 04:28 AM.

  9. #379
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    With congressional approval.
    No, congressional buck passing. They merely said he could decide. If he chose no, they would not have overrode his decision. So, this means he was the decider.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #380
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    The obvious answer anyone who has any historical and political perspective of the US.....is YES.

    This is true not just in the shear number of those that oppose him with intense dislike/hatred, but the type of people that hate him. We are talking about the extreme US RW, the vast numbers of militant, armed to the teeth groups that were identified by the Bush administration at the the end of W's last term. The US right wing is is much more organized because that is the very nature of right-wing authoritarianism. They also have no qualms about displaying the level of militancy they hold to, from the gun toting at numerous bagger protests to their gatherings at Clive Bundy's. Again, it is not just the number, it is the intensity of it made up by gun toting racists that can barely contain themselves with the thought of a Black man in the White House.

    Stormfront, the vast numbers of militias, the border vigilantes, they are barometers of the intensity of the hatred. It was bad during Clinton, the groups spawned the OKC bombing, and I think the only reason we have not seen any really big events like that is because of the expanded surveillance keeping both international and domestic terrorism in check.
    As opposed to the obvious extreme US LW.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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