View Poll Results: Has Obama been a good President?

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Thread: Has Obama been a good President?

  1. #351
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Sure, they can....but again, how is that manifest in society? Did the media create the large numbers of right wing militias, right-wing hate groups?

    No.

    Again, your question:

    (is) the hate for Obama is more than it was for Bush?

    and the conversation surrounding it, the context, was about how much people hate these 2 POTUS's. The punditry exists on both sides, the intense personal dislike by Americans of Obama exceeds what was expressed for Bush. We did not have large numbers of displays of guns and rifles by left-wing protesters during the Bush terms.
    I seem to remember some intimidation tactics used by several groups against "right wingers" during Obama's presidential campaign.

    Edit: You are also ignoring those on the left who are not exactly happy with President Obama and his policies too. You can't ignore them. There are quite a lot of them. Apparently the president is not "left" enough for some of them.

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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm not denying that there are SOME groups out there that would definitely hate Obama because of his color. … However, I'm pretty sure they make up a relatively SMALL minority of those who disagree with Obama policies. Most of the people who disagree with him do so for legitimate reasons that have nothing to do with the fact that he is a black man.
    I'd say yer probably correct that "most of the people who disagree with him do so for legitimate reasons that have nothing to do with the fact that he is a black man." But when you wrote in yer previous post that "no one can be so dense as to believe it is due to his skin color in today's United States of America," I can say yer definitely wrong because I for one am that dense.

    You need to divide his opposition into different groups. There are the "proud" racists who hate the idea of a black president. Then there are those who don't want to think of themselves as racists but are nevertheless affected by racist attitudes. And remember he's not just any black man. He's a law professor. His father was a Kenyan who was pretty far out on the Left. And in today's environment, it makes a difference that his father was a Muslim, not that it should. I want to emphasize that point. I don't have much of a problem with people feeling uncomfortable with his father's politics, but the idea that it makes a GD bit of difference that he was a Muslim is putrid, filthy, un-American bigotry, just as bad as racism. Bigotry is a heinous sin.

    More than anything, I wanna say this is complicated. I'm willing to say that bigotry is very complicated. People who have a lot of character and decency can be affected by bigotry because of the way they were raised. When the country takes a big hit like we did in the Great Recession, and it's not altogether clear to many who was responsible because of the timing of Bush leaving and Obama coming in, and yer someone who has always been opposed to liberal Big Government, and you've always supported a foreign policy based on a willingness to take military action rather quickly and easily, and yer concerned about the economy and yer financial security and retirement due to the demographics of a low birth rate in the US and an aging baby boomer population, and the US position in the world seems to have slipped because of globalization and the rapid economic growth in countries like China and India, and it won't be long before whites are a minority in the US population, and perhaps worst of all he took on this problem we've been trying to solve for several decades of a lot of Americans without health insurance and the constant high inflation in healthcare costs and that inevitably was gonna be a very difficult process that would be very disruptive and probably look bad at first — all these things add up to make a lot of people feel even more negative about a man like Obama than they would about some white liberal who comes across as more "friendly" and "down-to earth" like Clinton.

    >>In fact, a lot of the dissatisfaction comes from the left. Some liberals are very disappointed in Obama too.

    That's a good point, and one that I think a lot of people don't take into account when they look at his relatively low popularity in the polls. And many forget that the country often just gets tired of a president in a second term.

    >>It's pretty obvious by this statement above that you harbor quite a bit of hatred yourself.

    It sure isn't obvious t' me. What would you point to as something that makes it obvious?

    Quote Originally Posted by finebead View Post
    I could not respond to the poll, because I am a moderate american. I am fiscally conservative, socially progressive. I lean right on some issues, and left on others. I'll give Obama a B so far. I'll keep watching to see how Obamacare turns out in a couple of years. It's too soon to tell IMO.
    I didn't vote either, and basically for the same reason. I also agree with yer assessment of the President's performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    They totally fuel the fires of hatred, yes. Many, many people are influenced by what they hear on their news programs.
    More to the point, I'd say, many people are affected by Faux News and right-wing hate media, which purport to report ( ) the news, but really only use that as a mechanism to generate big profits while peddling ideology.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I have to say that, in light of the newest events that have occurred in Iraq, my opinion of President Obama is even worse now. Did he have NO IDEA that any of this was going to occur? Were there were no warnings?
    Yeah, there were a LOT of warnings. The ones that count came in 2002 and 2003 from people who argued against a clumsy and poorly planned invasion of Iraq.

  3. #353
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmi;1063397976[QUOTE
    ]I'd say yer probably correct that "most of the people who disagree with him do so for legitimate reasons that have nothing to do with the fact that he is a black man." But when you wrote in yer previous post that "no one can be so dense as to believe it is due to his skin color in today's United States of America," I can say yer definitely wrong because I for one am that dense.

    You need to divide his opposition into different groups. There are the "proud" racists who hate the idea of a black president. Then there are those who don't want to think of themselves as racists but are nevertheless affected by racist attitudes. And remember he's not just any black man. He's a law professor. His father was a Kenyan who was pretty far out on the Left. And in today's environment, it makes a difference that his father was a Muslim, not that it should. I want to emphasize that point. I don't have much of a problem with people feeling uncomfortable with his father's politics, but the idea that it makes a GD bit of difference that he was a Muslim is putrid, filthy, un-American bigotry, just as bad as racism. Bigotry is a heinous sin.

    More than anything, I wanna say this is complicated. I'm willing to say that bigotry is very complicated. People who have a lot of character and decency can be affected by bigotry because of the way they were raised. When the country takes a big hit like we did in the Great Recession, and it's not altogether clear to many who was responsible because of the timing of Bush leaving and Obama coming in, and yer someone who has always been opposed to liberal Big Government, and you've always supported a foreign policy based on a willingness to take military action rather quickly and easily, and yer concerned about the economy and yer financial security and retirement due to the demographics of a low birth rate in the US and an aging baby boomer population, and the US position in the world seems to have slipped because of globalization and the rapid economic growth in countries like China and India, and it won't be long before whites are a minority in the US population, and perhaps worst of all he took on this problem we've been trying to solve for several decades of a lot of Americans without health insurance and the constant high inflation in healthcare costs and that inevitably was gonna be a very difficult process that would be very disruptive and probably look bad at first — all these things add up to make a lot of people feel even more negative about a man like Obama than they would about some white liberal who comes across as more "friendly" and "down-to earth" like Clinton.

    >>In fact, a lot of the dissatisfaction comes from the left. Some liberals are very disappointed in Obama too.

    That's a good point, and one that I think a lot of people don't take into account when they look at his relatively low popularity in the polls. And many forget that the country often just gets tired of a president in a second term.

    >>It's pretty obvious by this statement above that you harbor quite a bit of hatred yourself.

    It sure isn't obvious t' me. What would you point to as something that makes it obvious?
    Perhaps I should have said it is dense to think that MOST Americans dislike Obama because of his skin color? That is what I mean. I don't deny that there are those who are ignorant and dislike him simply because of his skin. I never really believed that Obama was a "Muslim." I do know that he had some exposure to the religion as a young person or perhaps when he was a child, but personally that is of no concern to me. I was never concerned with those rumors. I happen to just think he was not the right man for the job. Perhaps in easy times, he would have made a FINE president, but he just too inexperienced to deal with the issues that we were and are facing as a nation IMO.

    As to that man's anger . . . I think it's quite apparent if you read pretty much ANY of his posts. That is all I'm going to say on that particular matter.

  4. #354
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Do you think the hate for Obama is more than it was for Bush? I don't think so, especially not in the media.

    What do you think about the insurgency happening in Iraq now? Negative for Obama?
    On the whole yes. Other than outliners, most like myself just disagreed with his behavior concerning Iraq. No one questioned his birth, for example. You had to find those who were more extreme to find the silliness. I can walk into a local establishment and hear this nonsense. I couldn't with Bush.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #355
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I seem to remember some intimidation tactics used by several groups against "right wingers" during Obama's presidential campaign.
    Are you going to argue that the same thing did not go on by the right?

    Edit: You are also ignoring those on the left who are not exactly happy with President Obama and his policies too. You can't ignore them. There are quite a lot of them. Apparently the president is not "left" enough for some of them.
    FFS, not only can you not remember what your original question and the context surrounding it was.....but now you can't remember that we JUST HAD THE SAME CONVERSATION:
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    In fact, a lot of the dissatisfaction comes from the left. Some liberals are very disappointed in Obama too. Surely, no one can be so dense as to believe it is due to his skin color in today's United States of America?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Are you seriously going to say that a lot of the left HATE Obama with the same intensity as the right wing?
    But don't hate him......you are forgetting what you asked.
    Straw, I never said those that are "disappointed" with Obama are racists, you are moving the goal post on your own question......but then you seem to thrive on dishonest discussion.

    Your question was:

    (is) the hate for Obama is more than it was for Bush?

    Don't try to change what you asked, it remains on the page.
    I have NOT ignored your silly attempt to change your question from "hate" to "disappointed" or "not happy".

    FFS ChrisL, can't you have just one honest, fair, non-hypocritical debate with me where you don't have to move your own goal post?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #356
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    On the whole yes. Other than outliners, most like myself just disagreed with his behavior concerning Iraq. No one questioned his birth, for example. You had to find those who were more extreme to find the silliness. I can walk into a local establishment and hear this nonsense. I couldn't with Bush.
    I disagree. I think the hate displayed is pretty much equal for both. We are . . . how many years into the Obama presidency, and people are STILL blaming and talking about Bush. Obama assured us that he could handle the job. Well, I disagree and have always disagreed.

    Like I said in another post, if times were good, he might be a great president, but with the problems that our country is facing, he just doesn't have what it takes IMO. I'm actually concerned with what is happening in Iraq. This is MORE than just a blame game for some of us, and when you DO want to place blame, well it has to go to the current POTUS.

  7. #357
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Are you going to argue that the same thing did not go on by the right?
    I think that's exactly what YOU were insinuating in your last post to me, trying to make it seem as if Obama was more hated because of the intimidation by certain groups. I just countered your point with one of my own. I've already acknowledged SEVERAL times that there are groups of people who are ignorant and would certainly dislike the president because of the color of his skin. However, those people are the minority and the outliers. I believe that MOST people dislike Obama because of his policies.

    FFS, not only can you not remember what your original question and the context surrounding it was.....but now you can't remember that we JUST HAD THE SAME CONVERSATION:
    Obviously, you are getting too angry to have any kind of a rational discussion. One would think that Obama is your lover.


    I have NOT ignored your silly attempt to change your question from "hate" to "disappointed" or "not happy".

    FFS ChrisL, can't you have just one honest, fair, non-hypocritical debate with me where you don't have to move your own goal post?
    I've moved nothing. It's not MY fault that you are unreasonable, irrational and cannot converse like an adult.

  8. #358
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    On the whole yes. Other than outliners, most like myself just disagreed with his behavior concerning Iraq. No one questioned his birth, for example. You had to find those who were more extreme to find the silliness. I can walk into a local establishment and hear this nonsense. I couldn't with Bush.
    ANYWAYS . . . with what is going on in Iraq right now, who really cares who is more hated? Bottom line is that neither of them (Bush/Obama) were/are very good presidents. Although, to be honest, I feel much more disagreement with Obama than I ever did with Bush. When Bush declared war, I assumed that there WAS evidence of WMD, and I still would NOT be surprised if there had been.

  9. #359
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Perhaps I should have said it is dense to think that MOST Americans dislike Obama because of his skin color? That is what I mean.
    Yeah, It wasn't altogether clear what you were saying, and I sorta knew what you meant. YOUR FAULT for being imprecise.

    >>I happen to just think he was not the right man for the job. Perhaps in easy times, he would have made a FINE president, but he just too inexperienced to deal with the issues that we were and are facing as a nation IMO.

    In my opinion, you have this exactly backwards. I think he was THE person who was ideally suited to deal with the problems we had. Lots of people really HATED Lincoln, and as you know, that whole thing was wrapped in a blanket of race and bigotry. Bush43 showed himself to be a capable leader when the financial crisis hit and he went along with TARP even though I bet he was very unhappy about doing so. It had to be done, like an amputation to save a life. To complete the analogy, I'd say Obama has helped us grow back a new limb to replace the one we lost. I see him as a VERY intelligent and HIGHLY skilled technocrat. It's easy t' say that he's a bit tone-deaf as a politician, but otoh, he is a two-term POTUS, so …

    >>As to that man's anger . . . I think it's quite apparent if you read pretty much ANY of his posts.

    Well, I've read a number of his posts where he seemed quite reasonable. I see yer point — you two kinda went at it here and I'm guessing elsewhere. As you know, these things happens in discussion groups. Perhaps by next week, you'll be friends.

  10. #360
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    Re: Has Obama been a good President?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I disagree. I think the hate displayed is pretty much equal for both. We are . . . how many years into the Obama presidency, and people are STILL blaming and talking about Bush.
    Um, because Bush decided(er), with all of the his PNAC/Neocon/Vulcan cabal to illegally invade Iraq on false pretense, without waiting for full intel on WMD's, without the backing of the UN membership, creating a +2Trillion (and counting) unfunded hole in debt that we will be adding to with care for Vets for decades out. He took a nation that had relative stability and prosperity which is now going to burn in a another series of civil war, costing another tally of unknown numbers of dead innocents.

    We haven't even touched on his administrations absolute lack of doing anything to halt the housing bubble that triggered the worst recession since 1929.

    Like I said in another post, if times were good, he might be a great president, but with the problems that our country is facing, he just doesn't have what it takes IMO. I'm actually concerned with what is happening in Iraq. This is MORE than just a blame game for some of us, and when you DO want to place blame, well it has to go to the current POTUS.
    Yeah, all of it is on Obama, it is not that he inherited any of the problems left by the previous admin, nor has he had a completely dysfunctional Congress.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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