View Poll Results: Do you assume ppl are racist if they don't support illegal immigration ?

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Thread: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?[W:54]

  1. #21
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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Are you sure that don't support immigration reform? That would be something completely different.
    When they talk of immigration reform they are really talking about amnesty. Something that has been done twice now. Once by Reagan in '86 and again by Obama with young illegal aliens. Both times we have seen a surge of illegal immigration. In '86 there were 3 million illegal aliens. Today there are roughly 12-20 million (depending on source). Obama gave young illegal aliens amnesty in 2012, we went from 6k young illegal aliens per year entering the country in 2011 to 60k young illegal aliens today. A factor of 10 increase.

    So no, "immigration reform" is the same as amnesty, which supports coming to this country illegally.
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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    More immigrant kids arrive in Arizona

    "The federal government on Friday began sending hundreds of unaccompanied children caught crossing the border illegally in Texas to a holding center in Nogales, Ariz., further straining relations with Gov. Jan Brewer, who was already angry over the recent release of hundreds of undocumented families at bus stations in Phoenix and Tucson."

    Do you assume ppl are racist if they don't support illegal immigration ?

    no of course not that would be retarded not to mention what does immigration have to do with race? illegal immigrants come in all races.

    also who supports ILLEGAL immigration?
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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    When they talk of immigration reform they are really talking about amnesty. Something that has been done twice now. Once by Reagan in '86 and again by Obama with young illegal aliens. Both times we have seen a surge of illegal immigration. In '86 there were 3 million illegal aliens. Today there are roughly 12-20 million (depending on source). Obama gave young illegal aliens amnesty in 2012, we went from 6k young illegal aliens per year entering the country in 2011 to 60k young illegal aliens today. A factor of 10 increase.

    So no, "immigration reform" is the same as amnesty, which supports coming to this country illegally.
    No, that is only true if you strictly support your premise. If people do not support your premise but support immigration reform, they are not supporting illegal immigration. That is simply your spin.
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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I think you would be surprised just how much identity theft and fraud is used among the illegal alien population. And the IRS refuses to report or inform the people who's identities are stolen that their SSN's are being used in multiple places.

    Center for Immigration Studies ~ Illegal, but Not Undocumented

    I do agree however that e-verify should be mandatory, that the IRS should be made to inform people when their SSN's are being used in multiple places, and that companies should be fined heavily with non-compliance.
    I wouldn't put stock in source. Look at this claim:

    Illegal, but Not Undocumented | Center for Immigration Studies

    Children are prime targets. In Arizona, it is estimated that over one million children are victims of identity theft. In Utah, 1,626 companies were found to be paying wages to the SSNs of children on public assistance under the age of 13. These individuals suffer very real and very serious consequences in their lives.
    There are about 1,500,000 kids in Arizona (US census). That would mean that according to that source anywhere from 60% to 70% of Arizona's kids would be victims of identity theft. All that ID theft an no action by either the state or federal government?

    Now read this one:

    Employers must do their part. They can ensure that they have a legal workforce by using a combination of the federal government’s E-Verify and Social Security Number Verification Service systems and by signing up for the federal government’s IMAGE program or privately conducted audits.
    And then read this one:

    The Social Security Administration and Internal Revenue Service facilitate illegal immigrant-driven identity theft. Both turn a blind eye to massive SSN fraud and take no action to stop it. The Social Security Administration assigns SSNs to new-born infants that are being used illegally. The IRS demands that victims pay taxes on wages earned by illegal aliens using their stolen SSNs, while taking no action to stop the identity theft.
    The E-Verify program was created BY the DHS AND the IRS, so they are basically stating that even though they are pushing employers to sign up for a program created by the IRS, the IRS isn't doing enough to stop illegal immigration! Well, what exactly is the IRS supposed to do? Send armed law enforcement agents to employers who won't comply with the law? Create a report button a-la-debate politics? Then the nonstop calls of Big Brother from Libertarians would never stop. In short, it's damned if you do for the IRS, damned if you don't. If they create a system that essentially made it impossible to hire illegal immigrants, they'd be forced to

    1) Make E-Verify mandatory for all employers, which would raise the cost of hiring itself -and would be attacked by small business owners and Democrats.
    2) Send employees to check on ALL businesses (remember, most illegal immigrants work for small business owners) and require even more funding than today. This sounds great until you remember that the GOP wants to gut the IRS and in some cases even shut it down.
    3) Consolidate 3 agencies into one: ICE, IRS and SSA and create a single agency with the power to tax, deal with immigration and SS. That would make the heads of most 17 year old Libertarians explode. As much as I like it, it's still unfeasible.

    So... what is the IRS supposed to do according to the CIS?
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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    When they talk of immigration reform they are really talking about amnesty. Something that has been done twice now. Once by Reagan in '86 and again by Obama with young illegal aliens. Both times we have seen a surge of illegal immigration. In '86 there were 3 million illegal aliens. Today there are roughly 12-20 million (depending on source). Obama gave young illegal aliens amnesty in 2012, we went from 6k young illegal aliens per year entering the country in 2011 to 60k young illegal aliens today. A factor of 10 increase.

    So no, "immigration reform" is the same as amnesty, which supports coming to this country illegally.
    Actually there's been SEVEN AMNESTIES, The Simpmson-Messoli Act aka the first amnesty of rewarding law breakers in 1986. And SIX more amnesties snuck through Congress during the Clinton administration.

    Obama's amnesties aren't amnesties because only Congress can pass an immigration amnesty and Congress is the only branch of government that can write immigration laws or policies and under the oath that a President took, by law he's required to enforce those laws passed by Congress or step down and let some one who's competent to enforce the laws of the land.

    Since the passing of the Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA), 6 million illegal aliens have received amnesty in the United States. The IRCA Amnesty was supposed to "wipe the slate clean" and instead it's lead to the current situation of 12-20 million illegal aliens living in the country.



    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/l...-congress.html

  6. #26
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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I wouldn't put stock in source. Look at this claim:
    Actually the Center for Immigration Studies has posted many a study that has been pro-illegal alien just as much as they have posted antil-illegal alien studies. They're one of the very few non-partisan groups that I have seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    There are about 1,500,000 kids in Arizona (US census). That would mean that according to that source anywhere from 60% to 70% of Arizona's kids would be victims of identity theft. All that ID theft an no action by either the state or federal government?
    This surprises you how? The Federal government has proven time again that they won't actually enforce illegal alien laws. And identity theft and fraud are considered federal crimes and as such States cannot investigate them without the consent of the Feds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Now read this one:



    And then read this one:



    The E-Verify program was created BY the DHS AND the IRS, so they are basically stating that even though they are pushing employers to sign up for a program created by the IRS, the IRS isn't doing enough to stop illegal immigration! Well, what exactly is the IRS supposed to do? Send armed law enforcement agents to employers who won't comply with the law? Create a report button a-la-debate politics? Then the nonstop calls of Big Brother from Libertarians would never stop. In short, it's damned if you do for the IRS, damned if you don't. If they create a system that essentially made it impossible to hire illegal immigrants, they'd be forced to

    1) Make E-Verify mandatory for all employers, which would raise the cost of hiring itself -and would be attacked by small business owners and Democrats.
    2) Send employees to check on ALL businesses (remember, most illegal immigrants work for small business owners) and require even more funding than today. This sounds great until you remember that the GOP wants to gut the IRS and in some cases even shut it down.
    3) Consolidate 3 agencies into one: ICE, IRS and SSA and create a single agency with the power to tax, deal with immigration and SS. That would make the heads of most 17 year old Libertarians explode. As much as I like it, it's still unfeasible.

    So... what is the IRS supposed to do according to the CIS?
    1: It wouldn't raise employer cost if they made the e-verify system freely available. As a taxpayer I have no problem with that. IMO the only ones that would are those that are pro-illegals.
    2: That wouldn't be the purview of the IRS, it'd be in the purview of ICE.
    3: No need to do this. But co-operation among agencies would most certainly help. There is no reason why the IRS could not report situations of identical SSN's being used to the proper authorities, such as the FBI who upon further review could report the problem to ICE if an illegal alien was found to be using identity theft instead of a citizen. Personally I can't understand why federal agencies cannot co-operate with each other in order to reduce crime. Be it illegal immigration or any other type of crime.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  7. #27
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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Actually there's been SEVEN AMNESTIES, The Simpmson-Messoli Act aka the first amnesty of rewarding law breakers in 1986. And SIX more amnesties snuck through Congress during the Clinton administration.

    Obama's amnesties aren't amnesties because only Congress can pass an immigration amnesty and Congress is the only branch of government that can write immigration laws or policies and under the oath that a President took, by law he's required to enforce those laws passed by Congress or step down and let some one who's competent to enforce the laws of the land.

    Since the passing of the Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA), 6 million illegal aliens have received amnesty in the United States. The IRCA Amnesty was supposed to "wipe the slate clean" and instead it's lead to the current situation of 12-20 million illegal aliens living in the country.



    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/l...-congress.html
    Quote Originally Posted by St. Ronald Reagan
    I believe in the idea of amnesty for those who have put down roots and lived here, even though sometime back they may have entered illegally.
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  8. #28
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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, that is only true if you strictly support your premise. If people do not support your premise but support immigration reform, they are not supporting illegal immigration. That is simply your spin.
    If they support amnesty, which I have yet to find one single "immigration reform" that doesn't support amnesty in some form or another, then they are pro-illegal immigration as it has been shown twice now that amnesty just encourages more illegal immigration. Whether they admit that or not is the only difference. In the end amnesty of any sort just encourages illegal immigration.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

  9. #29
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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    Actually there's been SEVEN AMNESTIES, The Simpmson-Messoli Act aka the first amnesty of rewarding law breakers in 1986. And SIX more amnesties snuck through Congress during the Clinton administration.

    Obama's amnesties aren't amnesties because only Congress can pass an immigration amnesty and Congress is the only branch of government that can write immigration laws or policies and under the oath that a President took, by law he's required to enforce those laws passed by Congress or step down and let some one who's competent to enforce the laws of the land.

    Since the passing of the Immigration and Reform Control Act (IRCA), 6 million illegal aliens have received amnesty in the United States. The IRCA Amnesty was supposed to "wipe the slate clean" and instead it's lead to the current situation of 12-20 million illegal aliens living in the country.



    https://www.numbersusa.com/content/l...-congress.html
    Ok, seven, didn't know about those others. Either way, even you apparently agree that it has led to increased illegal immigration.

    As for Obama's EO amnesty...

    1: Obama has shown several times that he doesn't care about enforcing the laws he doesn't like and will often act regardless of the law.
    2: Obama's EO is, at its essence, an amnesty. Whether its officially declared so by Congress or not, that is what his EO boils down to.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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    Re: Why am I insensitive or racist if I find this wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by herenow1 View Post
    More immigrant kids arrive in Arizona

    "The federal government on Friday began sending hundreds of unaccompanied children caught crossing the border illegally in Texas to a holding center in Nogales, Ariz., further straining relations with Gov. Jan Brewer, who was already angry over the recent release of hundreds of undocumented families at bus stations in Phoenix and Tucson."
    Once I hear people complain about illegal Canadians as an excuse to build a fence on the border, I'll change my position.

    People hate Mexicans. It has little to do with immigration and everything to do with immigration from Mexicans.

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