View Poll Results: Less Government or Better Government?

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  • Less Government

    34 49.28%
  • Better Government

    35 50.72%
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Thread: Less Government vs. Better Government

  1. #81
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    ... everybody thinks until discrimination directed at them becomes a permanent part of their existence. If people won't give individuals the respect they require to be functioning and involved members of society, then respect has to be taken by force.
    They can take it be force, as long they don't use the power of government to do so.

  2. #82
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    ... everybody thinks until discrimination directed at them becomes a permanent part of their existence. If people won't give individuals the respect they require to be functioning and involved members of society, then respect has to be taken by force.
    disagree. The government should not discriminate. However, if a private business owner chooses not to serve someone-for any reason, that should be his right and the proper repercussion should not be government coercion but rather members of the excluded group-and their supporters-not patronizing the business. In the long run, discrimination that has no rational reason is harmful to the discriminator



  3. #83
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Not really because National Defense is one the powers the Federal Government has under the Constitution. I would write to them to close down bases all over the world that are not necessary since the fall of the Soviet Union and cut down wasteful military spending yes.
    I love it when the big government types pull out "well that means you're in favor of defunding the military", when, if they knew 1/10th of what they think they know, they'd use a different example. The military is the ONE Constitutional area that the goverment MUST perform which is the defense of the country.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #84
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I love it when the big government types pull out "well that means you're in favor of defunding the military", when, if they knew 1/10th of what they think they know, they'd use a different example. The military is the ONE Constitutional area that the goverment MUST perform which is the defense of the country.
    I loved it how he try to target my beloved Corps.

  5. #85
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    disagree. The government should not discriminate. However, if a private business owner chooses not to serve someone-for any reason, that should be his right and the proper repercussion should not be government coercion but rather members of the excluded group-and their supporters-not patronizing the business. In the long run, discrimination that has no rational reason is harmful to the discriminator
    Disagreement with 100,000+ years of history is not meaningful. If anyone bothered to actually study the human condition and check the social behaviour of the societies have existed during that time, you would know that disrespecting an individual forces him to either (1) respond with force or (2) accept a lower position in society, beneath you. Chimpanzees work the same way.

    For that reason, knocking somebody's hat off their head (rude in a modern context) was considered an offence meriting lethal retaliatory force among Vikings. By knocking his hat off, you outright said you were his superior and that he should defer to your presence and be a lesser being. In some jurisdictions, the case was the same for glaring at somebody or thumbing your nose at them or making up mocking poetry about them.

    In the 1960s, decades of tension had built up and blacks had had enough; the other half of the Civil Rights Movement was extremely violent and had the potential to create a low level race war, if the state governments had hit back harder. That's why the federal government and courts acted to stop them.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    They can take it be force, as long they don't use the power of government to do so.
    Well, that's a kind of society, I guess. I don't see why my world should become substantially more dangerous so that somebody else can be a racist, though. I would rather just bring the hammer of the government down on them and laugh at their dismay.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 06-08-14 at 08:03 PM.
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Disagreement with 100,000+ years of history is not meaningful. If anyone bothered to actually study the human condition and check the social behaviour of the societies have existed during that time, you would know that disrespecting an individual forces him to either (1) respond with force or (2) accept a lower position in society, beneath you. Chimpanzees work the same way.

    For that reason, knocking somebody's hat off their head (rude in a modern context) was considered an offence meriting lethal retaliatory force among Vikings. By knocking his hat off, you outright said you were his superior and that he should defer to your presence and be a lesser being.

    In the 1960s, decades of tension had built up and blacks had had enough; the other half of the Civil Rights Movement was extremely violent and had the potential to create a low level race war, if the state governments had hit back harder. That's why the federal government and courts acted to stop them.



    Well, that's a kind of society, I guess. I don't see why my world should become substantially more dangerous so that somebody else can be a racist, though. I would rather just bring the hammer of the government down on them and laugh at their dismay.
    I tried hard to find a legitimate argument against what I said and I could not. I am looking through my legal journals to see if there have been any Title VII claims lodged by Chimpanzees. At one time I was the most experienced attorney in that area within a judicial district and I never heard of such a case



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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post


    Well, that's a kind of society, I guess. I don't see why my world should become substantially more dangerous so that somebody else can be a racist, though. I would rather just bring the hammer of the government down on them and laugh at their dismay.
    Because a free society is not always the safest. Welcome to Freedom. It can be a double edge sword and I wouldn't have it any other way.

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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    However, if a private business owner chooses not to serve someone-for any reason, that should be his right and the proper repercussion should not be government coercion
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I tried hard to find a legitimate argument against what I said and I could not.
    Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88–352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964)

    An act to enforce the constitutional right to vote, to confer jurisdiction upon the district courts of the United States of America to provide injunctive relief against discrimination in public accommodations, to authorize the Attorney General to institute suits to protect constitutional rights in public facilities and public education, to extend the Commission on Civil Rights, to prevent discrimination in federally assisted programs, to establish a Commission on Equal Employment Opportunity, and for other purposes.
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    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #89
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I tried hard to find a legitimate argument against what I said and I could not. I am looking through my legal journals to see if there have been any Title VII claims lodged by Chimpanzees. At one time I was the most experienced attorney in that area within a judicial district and I never heard of such a case
    The purpose was the show that the impulse had deep roots in the most primal aspects of our biology. Before the 1960s, the blacks had a culture that made them as reliant on whites as all Americans now are on government; if a black offended to the extent to invite the attention of the Klan, they would make the appropriate apologies to the right people.

    The 'Black Power' movement mostly ended that. Changes in technology, communications, and social mobility allowed decades of frustration to begin creeping through the veneer of civility that existed between whites and blacks; the Nation of Islam had guns and they weren't going to settle for half measures, a context in which pacifists like Martin Luther King framed their pleas for equality; it was either the government stepped in to supervise the relations between blacks and whites and force them to respect each other (against their will and against the state governments if necessary), or a race war.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Because a free society is not always the safest. Welcome to Freedom. It can be a double edge sword and I wouldn't have it any other way.
    It's also not necessary, desirable, or sustainable, which is why it isn't around anymore. Besides, freedom is always contextual. Gays didn't possess freedom in a 19th century context.

    Saying "you wouldn't have it any other way" doesn't matter until you've experienced what it means to be judged for your birth rather than your achievements, to be held back in life -- to die a nobody because of it, full of unrealized potential and dreams -- and to not be able to resist without inciting the murder of yourself or your loved ones and bringing violence down upon your entire community. Arguments for "freedom" don't matter much in face of the level of hate and violence that can create.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 06-08-14 at 08:26 PM.
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yes we know that FDR raped the tenth amendment. However, Alito et al have been slowly rolling some of that crap back
    Such as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I love it when the big government types pull out "well that means you're in favor of defunding the military", when, if they knew 1/10th of what they think they know, they'd use a different example.
    I did — police and fire. And I assume you want to eliminate the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the Food and Drug Administration, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the National Transportation Safety Board, the National Institutes of Health, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, etc, etc, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    I loved it how he try to target my beloved Corps.
    It's ours, not yers.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Because a free society is not always the safest. Welcome to Freedom. It can be a double edge sword and I wouldn't have it any other way.
    Enjoy those dangerous drugs, that tainted food, that epidemic disease, that unsafe vehicle, that meltdown at the local nuclear reactor, that local toxic waste dump, that commute into a city choked with air pollution, that airplane that crashes with you or a loved one aboard or else into yer house, etc. etc, etc.

    You enjoy and would not want to live without all the benefits that "big government" provides. But yer enough of a hypocrite to pretend that you would wave them off because it would increase yer "freedom."
    Last edited by mmi; 06-08-14 at 08:25 PM.

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