View Poll Results: Less Government or Better Government?

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  • Less Government

    34 49.28%
  • Better Government

    35 50.72%
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Thread: Less Government vs. Better Government

  1. #31
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Oh, we know how it is different: It has the monopoly on the use of force, on coercion. Churches, AA meetings or birdwatcher clubs have no power to press you into anything they consider important; compare with IRS, EPA, FBI, etc.
    Your beef with the government appears to be with regulation and law. Who should determine these things, if not the government?

  2. #32
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I got it. You believe that government should begin and end where you want it to.
    I want the govt's role to be minimized, because it can't do things nearly as well as you or I can.

  3. #33
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    What if a government is too small to tackle a problem that society wants solved? Then it is not a better government, it is a smaller government for the sake of being small.
    Society does not require government to tackle every problem they want solved. Do you have an example of a problem only a large government could solve and why?
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  4. #34
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You have a false underwritten premise that the two are mutually exclusive.
    what he said



  5. #35
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Which do you feel is more important: A government that is smaller, or a government that can solve important problems more effectively?
    What, specifically, are "important problems" that require a big gov't? For example, we now have over 70 means tested "safety net" programs intended to help the poor, yet still have a constant 12% to 15% of the population that is poor. Would it not be possible to come up with a single, means tested, program that actually reduced the percentage of the poor?

    You falsely assume, by the design of your poll, that the opposite of smaller gov't is better gov't when even a fifth grader knows that the opposite of smaller gov't is bigger gov't.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #36
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Not at all, it's a matter of where your ideological priorities are.
    There is no evidence that a smaller government will always be worse than a larger government. Or even most of the time. Especially since "better" is a subjective term. Your poll and question are inherently biased in that they imply such. Now such may not have been your intent, but it is what you ended up putting out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I'm afraid you're mistaken. What I said was that if you focus on making government small, rather than effective, then your goal is not to solve society's problems. Which may or may not be in line with your ideology.
    That may have been your intent but it is not what you said which is what we are pointing out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    False dichotomy.

    It's not a choice between smaller government or better government.

    Smaller government is better government.
    Again, subjective view, only in the opposite direction. While I will agree with the opinion, it is purely an opinion.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  7. #37
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I'm afraid you're mistaken. What I said was that if you focus on making government small, rather than effective, then your goal is not to solve society's problems. Which may or may not be in line with your ideology.
    I don't want government to solve society's problems. In fact my initial response to your poll question was, "What makes you think government can effectively solve society's problems?" Government tends to be blunt, uncompromising, and intrusive. It rarely can effectively deal with all the permutations, scenarios, and exceptions to the problems of society. I personally believe letting individuals who are faced with those problems personally chart their own solutions is inherently more effective than letting distant elected officials or uncaring bureaucrats craft solutions.
    Last edited by Psychoclown; 06-08-14 at 12:37 AM.
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  8. #38
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    If smaller government is better, then no government must be best. That is the logical conclusion of your argument.
    Not at all. That's like saying if bigger government is better, than absolute tyranny is best. I think most of us would agree that there is an optimal size for government. For some folks that optimal point is an absolute, for others its an ever evolving, changing target, but you can favor smaller or larger government without necessarily going to the absolute extremes of the spectrum.

    Libertarians are not anarchists, no matter what so many misinformed posters here claim. We believe government, which as a monopoly on force, is necessary. But because it has that monopoly on force, it should be heavily restricted and closely monitored. Now that basic belief has within it various degrees. I've been called a statist by more radical, stringent libertarians and I've called an anarchist by supporters of big government solutions.
    Slipping into madness is good for the sake of comparison - Unknown.

  9. #39
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Better government.

  10. #40
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Society does not require government to tackle every problem they want solved. Do you have an example of a problem only a large government could solve and why?
    I never said anything about a large government.

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