View Poll Results: Less Government or Better Government?

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  • Less Government

    34 49.28%
  • Better Government

    35 50.72%
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Thread: Less Government vs. Better Government

  1. #381
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Because then the debate isn't contained to one specific idea. It'll just meander into a giant "big government bad!" poo-flinging argument. Boooorrring. Even though I see from the posts above me that's what's going to happen regardless.
    What are you saying? That is what this site is for. Not for some troll to ask a trick question so that if you pick a small government you are automatically saying that it's going to be worse. Good God! I can't believe I have to explain this.

  2. #382
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    What are you saying? That is what this site is for. Not for some troll to ask a trick question so that if you pick a small government you are automatically saying that it's going to be worse. Good God! I can't believe I have to explain this.
    Howdy Chris, some people think government should control everything in your daily life and take care of you from cradle to grave. Such things as self responsibility is passe. We see that today when a person does something wrong, it is everyone and everything else s fault than the person who did wrong. The federal government should be doing only what Article I Section 8 allows it to do. Every thing else is the states or the peoples responsibility.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  3. #383
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Howdy Chris, some people think government should control everything in your daily life and take care of you from cradle to grave. Such things as self responsibility is passe. We see that today when a person does something wrong, it is everyone and everything else s fault than the person who did wrong. The federal government should be doing only what Article I Section 8 allows it to do. Every thing else is the states or the peoples responsibility.
    I totally agree. The federal government has limited duties for a reason. People seem to not care how big, powerful and overwhelming the government becomes as long as they get a handout. It's really pathetic, and it really shows with changes in the quality of products, service, etc., just since I was a kid which wasn't THAT long ago.

    Also, the way this "poll" is worded is annoying to me. There isn't even an "other" choice. What kind of flamer poll is this anyway?

  4. #384
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I totally agree. The federal government has limited duties for a reason. People seem to not care how big, powerful and overwhelming the government becomes as long as they get a handout. It's really pathetic, and it really shows with changes in the quality of products, service, etc., just since I was a kid which wasn't THAT long ago.

    Also, the way this "poll" is worded is annoying to me. There isn't even an "other" choice. What kind of flamer poll is this anyway?
    Morning Chris, yeah, in my opinion the poll should have been word "Big Government vs. Better Government." I think it was Ben Franklin who said, "Those who choose security over Liberty will soon have neither." Today it seems almost everyone is choosing the security portion and abandoning the Liberty portion. Government was about the fourth of the size it is today when I grew up in the 1950's. It really had hardly any effect on a person's daily life. Today, just about everything you do involves government. But it seems most people are choosing security over liberty. One day they will wake up and find they can't do anything without government's permission.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  5. #385
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Perotista View Post
    Morning Chris, yeah, in my opinion the poll should have been word "Big Government vs. Better Government." I think it was Ben Franklin who said, "Those who choose security over Liberty will soon have neither." Today it seems almost everyone is choosing the security portion and abandoning the Liberty portion. Government was about the fourth of the size it is today when I grew up in the 1950's. It really had hardly any effect on a person's daily life. Today, just about everything you do involves government. But it seems most people are choosing security over liberty. One day they will wake up and find they can't do anything without government's permission.
    Morning!

    But if you word it "Big government vs. Better government" then it's the same thing only opposite.

    I agree with your points about people abandoning liberty for security. It's really, really sad that people have no confidence in themselves and believe that they NEED to have a government to care for them. Like they never grew up or something.

  6. #386
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    I'm pretty sure that different people define "big government" differently.

    Some people see it as being lots of rules and regulations and beurocrats.

    Others may see it as lots of welfare checks in the mail.

    Some of us see it as infrastructure creation, protection of person/property/environment, etc.

    I have a feeling that we aren't all on the same sheet of music in this discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #387
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    I'm pretty sure that different people define "big government" differently.

    Some people see it as being lots of rules and regulations and beurocrats.

    Others may see it as lots of welfare checks in the mail.

    Some of us see it as infrastructure creation, protection of person/property/environment, etc.

    I have a feeling that we aren't all on the same sheet of music in this discussion.
    That's what happens when you have a terrible OP to begin with. That is why this OP was more trolling than to have an actual discussion IMO.

  8. #388
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    The charter schools are the best we have. Why would you want to get rid of that? If we had Finland's grades, they wouldn't need to exist. Sadly, we are not Finland. In the meantime, I don't think we should be dragging down the best to everyone else's level. And don't think I'm saying this from the point of view of some one-percenter, or whatever you liberals call rich people. I go to Toombs County High School, where the dropout rate is about 30%. Every day at my school, I get to see some of the crappiest America has to offer. Some of the people I attend class with don't even read on a middle school level. And it's because they never have and never will care about their education. In Finland, most of the people seem to actually care about succeeding in life, unlike the unwashed masses on this side of the pond that are so enthralled by all those liberalism-touting celebrities that infect every aspect of our culture. I can't aford a private school, but that doesn't mean i want to strip that away from those who can. So while you get to condescend the rest of America from your tower of self-envisioned superiority, I get front row seats to watching our nation's future rot away. So don't talk to me about getting rid of charter schools. The people who come out of there are the best bet we have.
    What does "We are not Finland" mean? Finland's students are so much more successful than American students not because of the motivation of their students; it's because their education system is different than any others in the world. It's oriented more around learning than test scores. Charter schools are simply private schools funded by the government, since they don't have to follow the required curriculum. I said nothing about banning private schools; if a family wants to pursue a more expensive education than the one provided to them, I'm not going to stop them. But at the same time, I don't want my tax dollars going towards them either. What charter schools essentially are doing to our education system is attracting advantaged students away from standard public schools toward charter schools. This is especially occurring in poverty-ridden and disadvantaged areas. Because advantaged families (economically, most of the time) are taking their resources away from public schools, these schools, and the children enrolled there, suffer. if you want to reform the education system, and it desperately needs reform, you need to reform the system as a whole, because offering superior education to some and inferior education to others is not going to solve the problem.

  9. #389
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Tothian View Post
    Less government IS better government.
    Yes and no.

    Less bloated government and unnecessary "functions" is one thing.

    Cutting the necessary and helpful parts is another.

    For example, IMO there needs to be reasonable restrictions and guidelines on things. Take some hypothetical company - it makes Mark 2 Widgets, and if unrestricted would (depending on various factors, of course) dump the waste product into the nearby river, contaminating it and killing all the fish.

    To prevent this, we have restrictions on doing such things, and fines/punishments if you do so anyway.

    I am absolutely positive that somewhere there is an unscrupulous corporation paying a lobbyist and/or congressperson to push a bill that lifts some restrictions on waste disposal, or some other thing along those lines...
    Education.

    Sometimes I think we're alone. Sometimes I think we're not. In either case, the thought is staggering. ~ R. Buckminster Fuller

  10. #390
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    This question is absurd. There should exist no binary choice between more or less government. The real battle is between good and bad government.

    The title presents a (false) dichotomy that only seems to gain currency in the U.S. The question quite literally makes no sense in Europe.

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