View Poll Results: Less Government or Better Government?

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  • Less Government

    34 49.28%
  • Better Government

    35 50.72%
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Thread: Less Government vs. Better Government

  1. #361
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    Historically, big government doesn't work better.
    Historically, it has certainly worked better than minimum government, like they have in many African nations, and countries like Somolia.

    If you were to divide all the nations into two lists, one list being the ones with the most government, and the other into a list of countries with the least government, and then figure the average GDP per citizen for both lists, I'm pretty darned sure that the GDP per person of the big government group would be much higher than the small government group.

    Even communist countries are far more economically successful than countries that have minimum government.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  2. #362
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    It isn't an opinion, it's a fact. The larger a government gets, the wider the door is opened for corruption, bureaucracy, and abuse.
    Countries with small governments have just as much, if not more, corruption and abuse, although much of that corruption and abuse might be shifted to the private sector.

    You don't think that the private sector warlords of Somlia are corrupt?
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  3. #363
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    There were approximately 0 sexual assaults at the major Tea party rallies, and to date they have caused $0 in damages to public property. Care to look up the statistics from the OWS riots?

    Here are the characteristics of a sociopath. Please pay special attention to the ones in bold.


    Glibness and Superficial Charm

    Manipulative and Conning
    They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

    Grandiose Sense of Self
    Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."


    Pathological Lying
    Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

    Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
    A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

    Shallow Emotions
    When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

    Incapacity for Love

    Need for Stimulation
    Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

    Callousness/Lack of Empathy
    Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

    Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
    Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

    Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
    Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

    Irresponsibility/Unreliability
    Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

    Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
    Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

    Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
    Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.


    Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
    Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

    Angry Tea Party Conservative assaults interviewer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbc064Uwax4



    Protester Assaulted by Violent Tea Party Members at Palin McCain Rally
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVD5pdS9EOw



    Glenn Beck Teabagger Rally - Hostile reactions to questions put to Teabaggers
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFGUcA06DVY


    Glenn Beck Fan assaults protester at "Restoring Honor" rally
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXvzYch9Jkg


    Teabagger Violence Mars Tax Day Rally With Sen. Marco Rubio
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4BU8pfz2O4


    TP/GOP is just re-branding of the Birchers, with better messaging of their hate

  4. #364
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialDemocrat View Post
    And what is your proof of this? Why is the government implementing policy itself an bad thing? Earlier, you mentioned education. It's true that we are falling behind in education, but that is due to the privatization occurring with charter schools. The best nations in education, Finland leading ahead of the rest, don't use charter schools and reject privatization of education. There is decentralization of education within the system, as opposed to Common Core and standardized tests, but both strategies would be considered "big government."
    The charter schools are the best we have. Why would you want to get rid of that? If we had Finland's grades, they wouldn't need to exist. Sadly, we are not Finland. In the meantime, I don't think we should be dragging down the best to everyone else's level. And don't think I'm saying this from the point of view of some one-percenter, or whatever you liberals call rich people. I go to Toombs County High School, where the dropout rate is about 30%. Every day at my school, I get to see some of the crappiest America has to offer. Some of the people I attend class with don't even read on a middle school level. And it's because they never have and never will care about their education. In Finland, most of the people seem to actually care about succeeding in life, unlike the unwashed masses on this side of the pond that are so enthralled by all those liberalism-touting celebrities that infect every aspect of our culture. I can't aford a private school, but that doesn't mean i want to strip that away from those who can. So while you get to condescend the rest of America from your tower of self-envisioned superiority, I get front row seats to watching our nation's future rot away. So don't talk to me about getting rid of charter schools. The people who come out of there are the best bet we have.
    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    Pepe Booth strikes again.

  5. #365
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    The VA processed their first computer file in 1985. They haven't updated their software since then.

    Obamacare's website speaks for itself. I don't have to comment on that.

    3% of federal employees owe back taxes. 1,100 of those employed with the IRS itself got a total of 1 million in bonuses.

    And here's eleven screw-ups that Americans picked as the worst in 2011. The biggest government ‘oops’ of 2011 - The Federal Eye - The Washington Post

    Need I go on?
    Lots of companies still use antiquated computer systems. Some don't have computer systems at all. Healthcare.gov was developed by a private company, and yes, at one point it sucked, but it has been fully corrected, it worked flawlessly when I purchased my insurance from it. Have you never been to a private sector website that was temporarily not functioning? Happens all the time, and then those things get corrected. You don't think that any private sector employees owe any back taxes? And surely you remember the fact that failed wall street firms were still giving out billions in bonuses don't you?

    It's easy to point out flaws, they happen in every system, and every entity, government and private sector.

    By your logic, since the private sector has flaws, we should also have a small private sector, that doesn't produce much or employ many people. Geesh, what a whacko idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  6. #366
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    The charter schools are the best we have.
    Some are quite good, some are horrible. You probably need to do some more research on that. We also have some very fine regular public schools, particularly in richer areas where the parents actually give a damn about education.

    The only real advantage that charter schools have is that they do have kids who have parents who care about education. their biggest disadvantage is that often, lots of those families didn't fit in well into regular schools, because they may have some whacky ideas about the way a school should be operated or about what curriculum should be taught.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #367
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    Every day at my school, I get to see some of the crappiest America has to offer. Some of the people I attend class with don't even read on a middle school level. And it's because they never have and never will care about their education.
    Sounds like a social problem, not a governmental problem. the best our government can do is to provide the opportunity for every student to learn, but it can't make then care or learn.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  8. #368
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Lots of companies still use antiquated computer systems. Some don't have computer systems at all. Healthcare.gov was developed by a private company, and yes, at one point it sucked, but it has been fully corrected, it worked flawlessly when I purchased my insurance from it. Have you never been to a private sector website that was temporarily not functioning? Happens all the time, and then those things get corrected. You don't think that any private sector employees owe any back taxes? And surely you remember the fact that failed wall street firms were still giving out billions in bonuses don't you?

    It's easy to point out flaws, they happen in every system, and every entity, government and private sector.


    By your logic, since the private sector has flaws, we should also have a small private sector, that doesn't produce much or employ many people. Geesh, what a whacko idea.
    Companies that have four years to make a website have no excuse for creating such a crappy product. Perhaps its inherent crappiness had something to do with one of Michelle's college friends being hired?

    There's a difference. Businesses have an incentive to be as efficient as possible. If they don't work right, they either get a easy job screwing up for the government, or they go out of business because nobody wants to buy their crappy products. With a government, there's no competition. You can be as crappy as you want, because people are just going to keep voting in the same imbeciles, failures, and scumbags. Again. And again. And again.

    I guarantee you, there is not a single ****ing business larger than one building that doesn't use a computer, let alone something the size of our government. Oh wait, that's right. There isn't a business in the world that is as big as our government. Because the government is too damn big! Corrupt businesses like the bankers responsible for our economic crisis got away with what they did because they're in bed with our politicians. Meanwhile, the US is 17 trillion dollars in debt, and nobody in Washington is doing anything about it!

    And as for the VA, usually, businesses with outdated software aren't responsible for veterans dying on a waiting list to get a doctor to see why they feel sick. usually, businesses with outdated software don't have the job of filing the claims of millions of men and women who put their lives on the line so you didn't have to. And usually, there's a business with up to date software around to take the position of a business that doesn't. But that's not how government works.
    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    Pepe Booth strikes again.

  9. #369
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    Sounds like a social problem, not a governmental problem. the best our government can do is to provide the opportunity for every student to learn, but it can't make then care or learn.

    So may as well throw in the ones that show talent with all the losers, then make them all learn the same material at the same speed! What a perfect system!
    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    Pepe Booth strikes again.

  10. #370
    Villiage Idiot
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    So may as well throw in the ones that show talent with all the losers, then make them all learn the same material at the same speed! What a perfect system!
    Far from perfect, but apparently the best alternative that you have. So why don't you just make more money and go to a perfect private school? After all, you are a libertarian, right? Surely the 'rents aren't slackers living off da welfare.

    Now me, I'm a big supporter of education and believe that we should do whatever it takes, including additional funding, to do whatever we can do to improve our schools. I can tell by your writing that you are one with talent, and I agree that it sucks that you are tossed in with a bunch of losers.

    Please continue contributing on this forum, some of us want to hear what you have to say. And welcome to DP!
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

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