View Poll Results: Less Government or Better Government?

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  • Less Government

    34 49.28%
  • Better Government

    35 50.72%
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Thread: Less Government vs. Better Government

  1. #261
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    As a clarification, I think government effectiveness can and should be measured. I just don't think, politically, there is ever going to be an effective measure of government effectiveness because we'll never be able to agree on the required definitions to lend such a high-level measurement the necessary influence so as to be meaningful.

  2. #262
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    I fail to see why the "life outcomes" of the "least fortunate" is a meaningful measurement of government effectiveness. The primary reason for this failure is the vagueness of the the terms "life outcomes" and "least fortunate." What do you mean when you say "life outcomes?" What is your basis for determining who is "least fortunate" and how will their relative impoverishment be judged? Because of this lack of clarity, meaningful analysis of any potentially causal relationship between government activity and "life outcomes of the least fortunate" is impossible. Most of all, the justification for judging the effectiveness of a government by the least fortunate in society is making a broad assumption that everyone agrees that primary role of government is to improve the quality of life for the least privelidged.

    I might accept your measurement of effectiveness if you were looking at the relative health of a society. But I think that your simple definition is not suited to determining a measurement of government effectiveness.
    Of course, the absurd position that we cannot measure quality of life within different poli-sci systems! Statistical analysis has not been invented! Objectiveness is impossible!

    It is as if the arguments over the PPACA never happened, that the War on Poverty has not been mulled over, that measurements of income growth per capita are unexplained!

    Really....that is your line of argument?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #263
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Governments role was initially and should be limited in scope. An effective government is one which lets people live their lives without intrusion into their daily lives, yet fulfills the obligation of protection both domestically and overseas. Having a need to measure government effectiveness simply states to me there's too much government.
    Exactly, and I believe that is what the founders intended. They never wanted to have a huge overbearing big brother type government I'm sure.

    Good post.

  4. #264
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    If government fails, its because people fail. It's amazing how many conservatives say that government sucks and can't solve problems... then elect people whose MISSION it is to prevent government from functioning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Indeed, it seems to be a defining characteristic of statists and leftists that they put forth policies that anyone with any sense ought to realize will fail, and then try to blame their opposition for the results of this failure. They'll never take responsibility for the consequences of their own policies.
    You can really see the ignorance when a person puts all the blame on ONE side.

  5. #265
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    "LESS" and "BETTER" are pretty abstract words when it comes to linking them with government.

  6. #266
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Wait....are you claiming that this can be objectively measured.....this "smooth operation"?
    Who says it has to be, you?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  7. #267
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Of course, the absurd position that we cannot measure quality of life within different poli-sci systems! Statistical analysis has not been invented! Objectiveness is impossible!

    It is as if the arguments over the PPACA never happened, that the War on Poverty has not been mulled over, that measurements of income growth per capita are unexplained!

    Really....that is your line of argument?
    Let me try another route:

    Is the effectiveness of a sports coaching staff judged solely by the "life outcomes" of the fourth string? If no, why not?

  8. #268
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Exactly, and I believe that is what the founders intended. They never wanted to have a huge overbearing big brother type government I'm sure.

    Good post.
    Yes, yes.....after all, they were fine with slavery.....no overbearing big bro stuff there...nope, not at all.

    Ah, if we had just remained a slave holding agrarian Gentry, everything would be just fine! It was best for me! Tee-hee-hee!
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #269
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    I fail to see why the "life outcomes" of the "least fortunate" is a meaningful measurement of government effectiveness. The primary reason for this failure is the vagueness of the the terms "life outcomes" and "least fortunate." What do you mean when you say "life outcomes?" What is your basis for determining who is "least fortunate" and how will their relative impoverishment be judged? Because of this lack of clarity, meaningful analysis of any potentially causal relationship between government activity and "life outcomes of the least fortunate" is impossible. Most of all, the justification for judging the effectiveness of a government by the least fortunate in society is making a broad assumption that everyone agrees that primary role of government is to improve the quality of life for the least privelidged.

    I might accept your measurement of effectiveness if you were looking at the relative health of a society. But I think that your simple definition is not suited to determining a measurement of government effectiveness.
    Well, one thing I can say is that I believe our "least privileged" in America are doing okay. In comparison to every other point in history and pretty much every other country, we take care of our poor pretty darn well. There has always been and will always be a "poor class." That is just how it is, and that is not ALWAYS the fault of government but the individual at times IMO.

  10. #270
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Let me try another route:

    Is the effectiveness of a sports coaching staff judged solely by the "life outcomes" of the fourth string? If no, why not?
    Oh gawd......yes, you are right.....the govt of a country....is analogous to a football team.

    Thank you for pushing the argument to new heights.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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