View Poll Results: Less Government or Better Government?

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  • Less Government

    34 49.28%
  • Better Government

    35 50.72%
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Thread: Less Government vs. Better Government

  1. #241
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    The questions is whether govt is formed to cause a better outcomes....or not.

    You still have not absorbed the original point, it has not sunk in....or you are still in denial of the pretext in the context.
    Put very simply, the govt is formed to allow a smooth operation of society, not your fairy godmother.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

  2. #242
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    The questions is whether govt is formed to cause a better outcomes....or not.

    You still have not absorbed the original point, it has not sunk in....or you are still in denial of the pretext in the context.
    Government is formed to protect their citizens, while governmental rules are put in place such that government doesn't intrude into the lives of it's people. Where these rules (read: Constitution) do not exist or are ignored there is lots of death, lots of suffering which stems from the idea that "government knows best" all wrapped up in a good intentions bow.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  3. #243
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    LOL...what stupid response, how in the f#ck is maximizing well being of citizens "worse"?

    Worse than what?
    why do you think there are socialists, fascists, communists vs Libertarians, moderates, etc.

    you think a socialist welfare state helps people

    I don't think it does



  4. #244
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Government is formed to protect their citizens,
    Exactly, and that is the point, there is not one form of protection.
    while governmental rules are put in place such that government doesn't intrude into the lives of it's people.
    "Intrusion" is your wiggle word, lets see where you take it.
    Where these rules (read: Constitution) do not exist or are ignored there is lots of death, lots of suffering which stems from the idea that "government knows best" all wrapped up in a good intentions bow.
    Wow, that is some conflicting confusion there! Where rules do not exist, there is death.....which therefore is proof......that when rules do not exist.....it is an example.....that "government knows best"!

    And I did not have to give you any rope, you brought it yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #245
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why do you think there are socialists, fascists, communists vs Libertarians, moderates, etc.

    you think a socialist welfare state helps people

    I don't think it does
    You are giving examples of differing poli-sci ideologies, each claiming to be a better way......and you make a value judgement on " socialist welfare state".......after previously stating....."we cannot objectively measure what is a better form of government".

    Your complete and utter hypocrisy is ignored!

    FFS!

    YALE!!!!
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 06-10-14 at 11:38 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #246
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Put very simply, the govt is formed to allow a smooth operation of society, not your fairy godmother.
    Wait....are you claiming that this can be objectively measured.....this "smooth operation"?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #247
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Exactly, and that is the point, there is not one form of protection.
    The Constitution in the US protects it's citizens by providing for a standing army or militia. That's protection. What protection are you talking about - perhaps protecting people from themselves by banning and regulating what and how people should live their lives by a government edict?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    "Intrusion" is your wiggle word, lets see where you take it.
    The Federalist Papers can provide you some more background on intrusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Wow, that is some conflicting confusion there!
    To leftists perhaps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Where rules do not exist, there is death.....which therefore is proof......that when rules do not exist.....it is an example.....that "government knows best"!
    History is littered with examples, which you apparently either ignore or are unaware.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    And I did not have to give you any rope, you brought it yourself.
    Perhaps if you put together a few coherent statements you could make a claim. All I see is nonsense. Care to try again?
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  8. #248
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    History is littered with examples, which you apparently either ignore or are unaware.
    Your argument is so confused, so out of touch with the context of the argument.

    The argument at hand is whether or not the effectiveness of govt can be measured.

    Try actually addressing the context.
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 06-10-14 at 11:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #249
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You argument is so confused, so out of touch with the context of the argument.

    The argument at hand is whether or not the effectiveness of govt can be measured.

    Try actually addressing the context.
    Sure it can. I believe the greatest struggle you'd have is defining 'effectiveness.' The measurement of effectiveness is going to probably end up being driven by what people (or the government itself) considers as the role/goal of government. Fat chance you can get people to agree on that.

    With regards to the "less or better" question, I think that it is much easier for us to agree on what "less" government looks like than it is to come to a consensus on what "better" government is.
    Last edited by CycloneWanderer; 06-10-14 at 12:03 PM.

  10. #250
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    It is so sad seeing a person who lives their life in the belief that those arguing for the betterment of man, that have objective measurement that certain policies DO in fact lead to better outcomes for all, holds to a conspiracy theory that instead it is a plan for totalitarianism.

    It is very sad. Some who hold to your view blow up federal buildings.
    OMG I can't believe you posted that garbage. There is nothing that brings the "betterment of man" than to teach him to be responsible for his own choices in life and to allow him to pay the consequences for them. In doing so he learns. To not allow a man that life lesson destroys him.

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