View Poll Results: Less Government or Better Government?

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  • Less Government

    34 49.28%
  • Better Government

    35 50.72%
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Thread: Less Government vs. Better Government

  1. #221
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Sucks when its working properly?
    I said even when its working properly, not that it is working properly, or even that it has ever worked properly. That's why I gave you a choice between less government and better.

    "Better" is your license to imagine government the way you want it to be, including its size, scope and purpose. Despite this freedom, many people still opted for less government.

  2. #222
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Crime. That's easy to solve. By definition a crime is a violation of the law. Eliminate the law and you've solved crime. Not very practical though.
    So what's your point?

    And why do you think that it is the government's job to solve poverty?
    Not end poverty, but to address it. If there's a war and thousands are crippled beyond the point of employment, do we just send street sweepers to push them into a gutter?

    And how is it even supposed to solve natural disasters?
    Disaster relief.

  3. #223
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Amazing.....we somehow cannot measure whether a population has a better standard of living, is healthier, lives longer.....nope, that is beyond our capabilities.

    FFS.....there is something really wrong when some people tell themselves this.
    Lives longer is not subjective, but objective. It's a straight number of years. Easily measured. What is the measurement of "better"? There is no set measurement because it's a subjective value.

    We can compare a modern day Native American and a Native American from say just before the English settled on this continent. The Modern man might believe that he has the better life because he has modern medicine and advanced technology and is free from any mystic mumbo jumbo. The man from the past might believe that he has the better life because he lives in the clean air and has healthy food and is surrounded by family and tribe.

    The measure of whether something is better than another things is purely in the view of any given person comparing the two. Thus two people comparing the same two things can come up with different answers and neither is wrong. Because "better" is a subjective value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    So what's your point?

    Not end poverty, but to address it. If there's a war and thousands are crippled beyond the point of employment, do we just send street sweepers to push them into a gutter?

    Disaster relief.
    You are changing your words around. Moving the goal posts. Although I will give you credit and say that you are not really thinking about how you are wording some of your arguments. You said "solve" for all the above. For the first, crime, my point is that sometimes solving the problem doesn't necessarily give you the results you think it will. Be careful what you ask for. You just might get it. With poverty, you again throw out an hyperbole argument coupled with the premise that it is the government's job to take care of these people and not society's job, and yes these are separate entities. Disaster relief doesn't solve natural disasters, and again there is your premise that it is the government's job verses society's job.
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  4. #224
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that's silly. Libertarians believe that government is essential to resolve disputes among citizens, to provide for national defense, etc. Anarchists do not
    Well yes, that is the idea. However, it doesn't seem to ever be successfully put into practice anywhere. A government that resolves disputes among citizens, provides for defense, and so on always ends up much bigger than what Libertarians envision. Which is my point, its a utopian notion. Any government that is as small as libertarians envision ends up being an anarchy, any government that does what you want, ends up being much bigger than you want it to be.

    In all the nations of the world, there is not a single developed nation that with libertarian governance, thats pretty damning against libertarian philosophy if you ask me. Its a nice idea, but it obviously doesn't translate to the real world.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

  5. #225
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You are changing your words around. Moving the goal posts. Although I will give you credit and say that you are not really thinking about how you are wording some of your arguments.
    I'm not changing my words. I'm extrapolating on what I said, since you challenged me.

    With poverty, you again throw out an hyperbole argument coupled with the premise that it is the government's job to take care of these people and not society's job, and yes these are separate entities. Disaster relief doesn't solve natural disasters, and again there is your premise that it is the government's job verses society's job.
    We have a different definition of government in how it relates to problem solving within a society.

  6. #226
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Very serious accusations .
    I'd love to hear from government employees to hear their side of this issue.
    My opinion - considering the quality of our people, I think our government is OK...but, as with private business, it can be better..
    Suggestions ?
    Listen to the people, but, listen carefully.
    IMO, polls are male bovine feces, unless conducted properly and fairly...
    I suspect too many people here "hate" government and cannot argue sensibly.
    Those who base their understanding of government on revisionist history have a poor understanding of the true intent of our government's purpose/function. It allows them to stand for nothing and fall for anything. It allows them to create big over-regulating bureaucracies on what amounts to emotion instead of logic. Every bureaucracy Progressives have built in the last 100 years today are failures in that they can no longer be sustained. When a citizen is burdened/forced to hire someone to prepare their taxes because the tax code has become so complicated the system is a failure. When one of the biggest budget busters is paying for all the bureaucrats wages, benefits, bonuses and pension funds due to the size of these bureaucracies, the system is seriously flawed. When taxpayers are continuously left on the hook for increased funding to these bureaucracies in the billions of dollars to keep them afloat and no matter how much money is thrown at them, they never improve in efficiency, the writing is on the wall. I truly don't understand the mindset that thinks more government is better government. How they can put their faith in it with such a miserable record is beyond me. Maybe it's because they just don't have any faith in themselves.

  7. #227
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    I truly don't understand the mindset that thinks more government is better government. How they can put their faith in it with such a miserable record is beyond me. Maybe it's because they just don't have any faith in themselves.
    If government fails, its because people fail. It's amazing how many conservatives say that government sucks and can't solve problems... then elect people whose MISSION it is to prevent government from functioning.

  8. #228
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    If government fails, its because people fail. It's amazing how many conservatives say that government sucks and can't solve problems... then elect people whose MISSION it is to prevent government from functioning.
    The reason government isn't functioning effectively/efficiently isn't because of conservatives but because of feckless policies that have been implemented and were doomed to fail from the beginning.

  9. #229
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    The reason government isn't functioning effectively/efficiently isn't because of conservatives but because of feckless policies that have been implemented and were doomed to fail from the beginning.
    How does electing government saboteurs solve anything?

  10. #230
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    Re: Less Government vs. Better Government

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    How does electing government saboteurs solve anything?
    LOL so now anyone who wishes to scale back the size of government is a saboteur? By scaling back the size and scope of government, it would cut waste, help eliminate fraud, and reel in over-reach of federal power. Because government has grown so big not even the legislatures can keep track of funding for certain programs often double/triple dipping funding the same program under another name. It's absurd

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