View Poll Results: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

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  • Agree

    51 73.91%
  • Disagree

    7 10.14%
  • Other

    11 15.94%
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Thread: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

  1. #51
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Was John McCain a traitor?
    When he was a POW in captivity?

    No.

    He did confess, while in captivity, to being a war criminal, which in the strictest sense did provide aid to the enemy, but this occurred after several years in captivity and after he had been broken by torture, deprivation, and abuse.

    Beyond that the narrative is that he honored the Code of Conduct to the best of his ability for as long as possible.

    That's all this country can ask or expect of anyone.

    Once he came home, though, he broke faith with his fellow POWs, pisses all over the Code of Conduct, and has used his position as a Congressman and Senator to stifle any effort to bring the truth about the men left behind to light.

    In that sense John McCain may be among the biggest traitors in American history.

    Infinitely worse than Bergdhal.

    I'm not a religious man, but John McCain makes me hope that there is a hell, because rest assured, if there is, McCain will ****ing rot there.
    Last edited by soot; 06-05-14 at 05:16 PM.
    ďNow it is not good for the Christianís health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: ďA Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.Ē

  2. #52
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    You also do not negotiate with terrorists and I think that is the greater danger...to the country and to our soldiers, current and future.
    We negotiate with terrorists all the time. Even the Reagan Administration did it.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  3. #53
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Obviously referring to Prisoners of war.


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    You left off *Deserters.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  4. #54
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by HogWash View Post
    Except deserters...they can rot in hell.
    They're not deserters until tried and convicted. Until then they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Bring him home and let the military justice system determine his guilt and, if necessary, his punishment.


    There are limits to everything of course but we should do everything within reason to bring all our people home - whether dead or alive. We owe them that much. 5 of theirs for 1 of ours is a no brainer for me. Hell the Israelis have released hundreds to get back one of their own. In that we should emulate them.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  5. #55
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    What would John Wayne do?


    I think he'd go rescue Bergdahl....and then he'd have him stand trial and face his accusers....


    ...and then he'd charge $6 a ticket to see it on the silver screen. lol
    Last edited by Moot; 06-05-14 at 05:27 PM.

  6. #56
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    We usually do. A lot of the ones that have been rescued were part of treaty arrangements, prisoner exchanges, or their families are rich / influential in the U.S. polity. I'm sorry but the realpolitik is that most soldiers are not valuable, politically speaking. Same goes for our civilians who get detained overseas. There's only so much the government is willing to do to get people back.

  7. #57
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    They're not deserters until tried and convicted. Until then they deserve the benefit of the doubt. Bring him home and let the military justice system determine his guilt and, if necessary, his punishment.


    There are limits to everything of course but we should do everything within reason to bring all our people home - whether dead or alive. We owe them that much. 5 of theirs for 1 of ours is a no brainer for me. Hell the Israelis have released hundreds to get back one of their own. In that we should emulate them.
    We were told years ago by the US government that if Americans traveled over seas we were on our own. I agree with that 100%. I have been abroad as much as any poor person, and I didn't expect anything. I don't think the fighting forces of the US should have to risk their lives to rescue John Q. Millionnnaire who decided to go to Cambodia by way of North Korea and ends up in the clink there.
    Redneck, hillbilly, fundie, Bible thumper, cracker, split tails, geezer, loon, xenophobe, islamaphobe, and homophobe are not words of tolerance.

  8. #58
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by votemout View Post
    what about traitors or deserters?
    You bring them home and then Court Martial them.

  9. #59
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    I have read some of the accounts by soldiers in his unit but I am mindful of the fact that he did attain the rank of sergeant somehow, yes?
    This is not by any means the first time a soldier has become disillusioned. There was a lot of that happening in Vietnam, and in nearly every other war as well.
    There's also plenty of accounts of soldiers losing their nerve.
    It's unfortunate but it does happen.
    And if this nation EVER makes the mistake of abandoning one of its own to the captors, that is going to send a message that we really do not want to send, not only to prospective and current soldiers, but to the rest of the world.

    I do not feel qualified to comment on Bergdahl's service or loyalty for the simple reason that the dust has not settled on all the conflicting accounts yet. There is still so much we have not verified.
    Long story short it is entirely possible that this man had no earthly business joining the military at all, even if he harbored the idea of helping the Afghan people.

    He makes reference in an email about some US troops laughing at the fact that kids were being run over by armored vehicles and that fact made him feel ashamed to be an American.

    Now, like it or not, we must face up to the fact that there are an incredible number of verified accounts of this sort of thing happening in Afghanistan, Iraq, and in other conflicts. The excessive demonization process is partly to blame for this because, simply put, if our soldiers are being taught that these people are not human or less than human, they're not going to be the slightest bit interested in preserving the simple human dignity of the life of a child.

    I do understand the fact that we are sending people to foreign countries to fight an enemy. That's an entirely different discussion.

    But did we abuse German children in WW2?
    Did we abuse Japanese kids?
    Sigh, this is a complicated issue.

    If his superiors think he broke rules, put him through a disciplinary process.
    But that's an entirely different question than whether because we may not politically agree with him, that he should remain in captivity.
    If I didn't respond to your diatribe, it's possible you may have
    engaged in revisionism or broad sweeping generalizations.
    I don't have time for either, and you're probably on my IGNORE list.

  10. #60
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    The way the OP is phrased, there's only one obvious answer: of course we leave soldiers behind. We do it all the time. We shouldn't ever do so, but we do.

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