View Poll Results: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

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69. You may not vote on this poll
  • Agree

    51 73.91%
  • Disagree

    7 10.14%
  • Other

    11 15.94%
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Thread: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

  1. #171
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    (5 Taliban who have never attacked us, btw) = the state of New Hampshire.
    Nice strawman, but I didn't make that assertion or implication in the least.

    The State of New Hampshire = the State of New Hampshire for the purpose of highlighting why the notion of absolutes on something like this is ridiculous.

    Your OP didn't specify that this topic was SPECIFICALLY about the Bergdahl situation or that you were simply attempting to trick people into making a stance SPECIFIC to that...your OP was a generalized question. I answered the generalized question, not a question about this specific situation.

    Whether or not those 5 taliban prisoners were an acceptable piece of an "effort" to get back at POW is an ENTIRELY different discussion and has nothing to do with my suggestion that there are limits to what those "Efforts" should be.

    If you want to discuss what I actually say, go right ahead. If you want to continue to pathetically beat up on a strawman of your own creation then I don't expect that I'll be participating. Thank you, however, for demonstrating the dishonesty in what was presented as an honest generalized question as opposed to an attempt top lay "Gotcha" games.

  2. #172
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    What happened to "bring it on"? Bush felt we should get the terrorists over there and that is what will happen if they do go to Afghanistan. We are continuing our drone attacks even after most all of our troops leave.
    You also failed to address the fact that the pending release of the same 5 Taliban was announced in 2012 and yet now it seems like the Republicans are acting like they were blindsided and are busy changing all there facebook pages. McCain himself said in 2012 that he would "be inclined to support" the exact same prisoner exchange.
    I didn't address it because I didn't feel it was relevant. Just because it was mentioned before, doesn't mean people find it acceptable.

    Two top lawmakers on the Senate Intelligence Committee said Tuesday that the Obama administration broke the law by not informing Congress before the prisoner exchange that resulted in Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl’s release.

    Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein and Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss said the administration violated the law by failing to address serious concerns they had about the deal to swap Bergdahl for five Taliban detainees. Chambliss said he had not had a conversation with the White House about a possible exchange for at least 18 months.

    "It comes to us with some surprise and dismay that the transfers went ahead with no consultation, totally not following law," Feinstein told reporters following a closed door meeting. "And in an issue with this kind of concern to a committee that bears the oversight responsibility, I think you can see that we're very dismayed about it .
    I disagree with your logic that we should just release them because we can capture (again) or kill them. These guys were important to the opposition, that they will rally and fight harder is not a desirable outcome.

  3. #173
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    But when someone lays down their gear and walks off, thereby putting other Americans at risk, why should we worry about them?

    Explain that to us, if you can.


    I believe that the best thing to do with someone like that is to tell them to scratch their ass.
    Right. Every soldier that cannot handle his duty is a despicable coward that should be left to die. Just because the military put him in that hell hole is no reason to think they have any responsibility for his mental or physical health or safe return

  4. #174
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Right. Every soldier that cannot handle his duty is a despicable coward that should be left to die. Just because the military put him in that hell hole is no reason to think they have any responsibility for his mental or physical health or safe return
    The military didn't put them anywhere until AFTER they signed up and swore the oath.

  5. #175
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    You are correct he didn't desert his post, but there were people who accused him of collaborating with the North Vietnamese.
    At some point every POW will eventually talk after being tortured, even the military understands this. This Bergdhal idiot intentionally put himself at risk as well as the other men in his unit. If an officer would have had a clear shot at him while he was going AWOL it would have been acceptable to shoot him within the context of a forward combat area.

    In addition, we might say we don't leave anyone behind, but anyone with a brain knows that is just something you just say. In a war we make hard decisions. Sometimes those decisions include intentionally sacrificing soldiers in order to achieve a larger strategic objective. We have sent men behind enemy lines, assaulted fortified positions, taken beachheads, and many other actions where it was known going into the battle that there would be high percentages of casualties. To say later that we would go to any means in order to release a POW just doesn't fit with the idea that soldiers are sometimes considered to be expendable. War is hell.

  6. #176
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The military didn't put them anywhere until AFTER they signed up and swore the oath.
    And what oath did the military give to him? That the minute he was no longer mentally or physically fit they would abandon him to the enemy? That is certainly not how we treated "songbird" McCain.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 06-06-14 at 03:36 PM.

  7. #177
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratrooper View Post
    I didn't address it because I didn't feel it was relevant. Just because it was mentioned before, doesn't mean people find it acceptable.



    I disagree with your logic that we should just release them because we can capture (again) or kill them. These guys were important to the opposition, that they will rally and fight harder is not a desirable outcome.
    Actually their release was less than a year away regardless of the swap. As "enemy combatants" we cannot hold them after we cease hostilities in Afghanistan.

  8. #178
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    I voted disagree because we still have MIA/POWs.

  9. #179
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by Amandi View Post
    I voted disagree because we still have MIA/POWs.
    Currently, 1,643 Americans are "unaccounted for" in Southeast Asia or MIA:


    North Vietnam : 469
    South Vietnam : 806
    Laos : 308
    Cambodia : 53
    China : 7

    After the fall of Saigon for the next 20 years live sightings of Americans or Caucasians were reported, but since our government and people basically wanted to wash their hands of Vietnam, most of the sightings went uninvestigated. Rumors abounded about POW's left behind that were not turned over according to the Paris Peace Pact.

    Here is some more info:

    By comparison, over 78,000 are missing from World War II and over 8,000 are missing from the Korean War. Consider these facts:

    The missing in Vietnam are slightly more than 3 percent of the over 58,000 casualties suffered by U.S. forces in Vietnam.

    In WWII, the 78,000-plus missing represent over 14 percent of the casualties. Remember, WWII was worldwide and included many naval and air engagements; if a destroyer or cruiser was sunk, several hundred men would be lost. No such incidents occurred in the Vietnam War
    .
    In Korea, the over 8,000 missing represent approximately 14 percent of the casualties. A large percentage of the "missing" in Korea were actually buried by U.S. forces in battlefield gravesites or in temporary cemeteries, which were later abandoned when Communist forces drove south. Many of these gravesites are in North Korea. And, over 800 unidentified Americans (10 percent of the missing) are buried in the Punchbowl National Cemetery in Hawaii.

    I do wonder how many of the old foggies now defending the swap for Bergdahl were back in the late 70's and 80's saying that our, Vietnam Vets, got what they deserved. For the longest time we Vietnam Vets were looked down on and scorned by quite a lot of the American Public.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  10. #180
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    Re: We Donít Leave Our Men or Women in Uniform Behind

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    And what oath did the military give to him? That the minute he was no longer mentally or physically fit they would abandon him to the enemy? That is certainly not how we treated "songbird" McCain.
    No, that is not how McCain was treated. That you would think that shows you know nothing of McCain's story. I suggest you google him and do some reading. As to your first point, not how it works, you join and take an oath to follow their rules, not the other way around.

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