View Poll Results: Should we pay reparations to the African American community?

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  • We should pay reparations to the African American communtiy

    15 9.93%
  • We should not pay reparations to the African American community

    136 90.07%
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Thread: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

  1. #91
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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Yes, and intellectual honesty requires that such discussion should include the fact that slavery is a minimal or perhaps not a factor in the black experience in America today. It also has to include a myriad of well-intended but disastrous government programs of 'reparations' that were supposed to help black people but instead have forced too many into permanent second class citizen status entrenched in permanent unemployablility and generations of crime ridden poverty that perpetuate themselves. And now, in 2014, THAT is what has harmed black people for the last 60 years.

    And because those disastrous policies have so enriched and empowered the permanent political class, they are not about to change their spots and do anything differently. So look to those folks for any reparations due.

    PEOPLE LOVE THE PAST. It provides convenient excuses for all manner of individual or group shortcomings. Academic "experts," politicians and race hustlers use history as a cover-up. They point to the ugly facts of slavery, Jim Crow and discrimination as explanations for the high rates of black illegitimacy, crime and family breakdown. The connection between slavery and discrimination, and what we see today, is hardly ever challenged. But challenge it we must.

    Only 40 percent of black children live in two-parent households. The illegitimacy rate among blacks stands close to 70 percent. The "legacy of slavery" explanation for today's weak black family structure loses all manner of credibility when one examines evidence from the past.
    Even during slavery, most black children lived in biological two-parent families. One study of 19th-century slave families (Herbert Gutman, "The Black Family in Slavery and Freedom: 1750-1925") found that in up to three-fourths of the families, all the children had the same mother and father. In New York City in 1925, 85 percent of kin-related black households were double-headed. In fact, "Five in six children under the age of six lived with both parents.". . . .

    . . . .Both during slavery and as late as 1920, a black teen-age girl raising a child without a man was rare among blacks. Gutman, also found in analyzing data on black families in Harlem between 1905 and 1925 that only 3 percent of all families "were headed by a woman under 30.". . . .

    . . . .The "politically correct" theory is that poverty and discrimination is the cause of high crime rates. During my youth in the 1930s and 1940s, black neighborhoods were far safer than today. It would be preposterous to suggest back then there was less poverty and discrimination.

    The level of social pathology seen in many black communities is unprecedented and has nothing to do with a so-called legacy of slavery, unless we're willing to say that slavery has a delayed reaction of four or five generations.

    --Walter Williams PhD 1999
    Walter Williams

    ******************************

    . . .There has been much documented racial progress since 1963. But there has also been much retrogression, of which the disintegration of the black family has been central, especially among those at the bottom of the social pyramid.


    Many people — especially politicians and activists — want to take credit for the economic and other advancement of blacks, even though a larger proportion of blacks rose out of poverty in the 20 years before 1960 than in the 20 years afterwards.

    But no one wants to take responsibility for the policies and ideologies that led to the breakup of the black family, which had survived centuries of slavery and generations of discrimination. . . .

    . . . Civil rights were necessary, but far from sufficient. Education and job skills are crucial, and the government cannot give you these things. All it can do is make them available.

    Race hustlers who blame all lags on the racism of others are among the obstacles to taking the fullest advantage of education and other opportunities. What does that say about the content of their character? . . . .
    A Poignant Anniversary by Thomas Sowell on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent
    I commend you on your passion. Nice links. That said, the damage done isn't quite made up as fast as people SEEM to think. The 60's weren't that long ago. Many still live in families that have no history of reading. Poverty begets poverty much as wealth p begets wealth. certainly there are exceptions, but I'm not we should base opinions on exceptions, either way.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #92
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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    I'm German and Iroquois, I don't owe the Black African's a damn thing.
    Islam is an antiquated religion and needs to either modernize with the times or be completely eradicated.
    There are two types of Muslims, terrorists, and their enablers. They need to fix that if they want to be part of civilized society.

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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I commend you on your passion. Nice links. That said, the damage done isn't quite made up as fast as people SEEM to think. The 60's weren't that long ago. Many still live in families that have no history of reading. Poverty begets poverty much as wealth p begets wealth. certainly there are exceptions, but I'm not we should base opinions on exceptions, either way.
    I think if we don't base opinions on the root causes of WHY poverty begets poverty now we will keep doing the same destructive stupid stuff we are doing and calling it righteous. Poverty certainly did not beget poverty when I was starting out and it certainly did not when Williams and Sowell were starting out and it certainty was not true of the black people who were the most rapidly advancing demographic group in America economically--they hadn't yet caught up with whites but they were getting there--until the government decided to 'help them out'.

    I doubt anybody in the country has done more extensive research on the subject than has Thomas Sowell and I strongly recommend his books and essays on the subject. If somebody wants an eye opener, set aside the politically correct garbage that is spread like gravy all over everything these days, and read the real history. It will change your attitude about it forever.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I think if we don't base opinions on the root causes of WHY poverty begets poverty now we will keep doing the same destructive stupid stuff we are doing and calling it righteous. Poverty certainly did not beget poverty when I was starting out and it certainly did not when Williams and Sowell were starting out and it certainty was not true of the black people who were the most rapidly advancing demographic group in America economically--they hadn't yet caught up with whites but they were getting there--until the government decided to 'help them out'.

    I doubt anybody in the country has done more extensive research on the subject than has Thomas Sowell and I strongly recommend his books and essays on the subject. If somebody wants an eye opener, set aside the politically correct garbage that is spread like gravy all over everything these days, and read the real history. It will change your attitude about it forever.
    I quite agree that root causes are important, though we might disagree what they are. But leaving a people with no blue print, from a different place, with no history, no generational background with which to ground a people, and then declare it all their fault and no need to do anything at all? Well, that don't seem quite right.

    And no Thomas Sowell is the poorest of sources. I've read his work. His degree is in economic and his social history is limited and different from many of his race.

    However, the point here is that exceptions shouldn't lead the way. We need something that reaches many, and not just a few.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Te-Nehisi Coates' recent article in The Atlantic has raised a few eyebrows, and showed me just how much I did not know concerning how America and America's government has oppressed the African American community in the past...and even to the modern day.

    Coates points out that reparations isn't a matter of "we can't afford it" or "how do we determine who gets paid how much", but a matter of right and wrong. America - and America's government - committed great wrongs against the African American community over many generations, including within my own lifetime.
    .
    The idea that we should pay someone for something that happened to their ancestors is ****en moronic. It is one of the most idiotic things the left has ever suggested. People who suggest that we should pay someone for what happened to that individual's ancestor should be treated no different than we treat the birthers, truffers, JFK conspiracy theorists and other retards.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I quite agree that root causes are important, though we might disagree what they are. But leaving a people with no blue print, from a different place, with no history, no generational background with which to ground a people, and then declare it all their fault and no need to do anything at all? Well, that don't seem quite right.

    And no Thomas Sowell is the poorest of sources. I've read his work. His degree is in economic and his social history is limited and different from many of his race.

    However, the point here is that exceptions shouldn't lead the way. We need something that reaches many, and not just a few.
    Well let's see. Thomas Sowell descended from slaves and grew up under segregation and went through the same rebellious years that many youths do. He had to drop out of 9th grade due to financial difficulties and go to work doing menial odd jobs just to feed himself. He finished highschool by going to night classes and after a stint in the military managed to graduate with honors from some prestigious universities. How is his social history limited any more than anybody else's?

    His point is that he is NOT the exception but his numbers are legion among black people who have managed to own and run businesses, achieve acclaim in the entertainment and sports industries, who have achieved success as academics, lawyers, doctors, scientists, and in elective office despite being descended from slaves and growing up amidst racial prejudices and segregation. And most who have done so have done it the hard way--they earned what they have and have merited what they have achieved by seizing and utilizing opportunity wherever they found it.

    But government policy that encourages black people to see themselves as the oppressed, as the disadvantaged, as victims of slavery and that discourages all the best things that help people of all cultures and ethnic groups and races to succeed has consigned whole sub groups of black people to crushing poverty and believing there is no way out of it for them unless the government does it for them.

    And for the government to keep promising it will do it for them so they will keep voting the same people in, and then the government continuing the same failed policies that have created the situation, is criminal. It is those politicians we should look to for any reparations that are due living people.
    Last edited by AlbqOwl; 06-03-14 at 08:57 PM.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well let's see. Thomas Sowell descended from slaves and grew up under segregation and went through the same rebellious years that many youths do. He had to drop out of 9th grade due to financial difficulties and go to work doing menial odd jobs just to feed himself. He finished highschool by going to night classes and after a stint in the military managed to graduate with honors from some prestigious universities. How is his social history limited any more than anybody else's?
    middle aged white english professors just know these things, Owl. Back out now before he tells you to check your privilege.

    His point is that he is NOT the exception but his numbers are legion among black people who have managed to own and run businesses, achieve acclaim in the entertainment and sports industries, who have achieved success as academics, lawyers, doctors, scientists, and in elective office despite being descended from slaves and growing up amidst racial prejudices and segregation. And most who have done so have done it the hard way--they earned what they have and have merited what they have achieved by seizing and utilizing opportunity wherever they found it.

    But government policy that encourages black people to see themselves as the oppressed, as the disadvantaged, as victims of slavery and that discourages all the best things that help people of all cultures and ethnic groups and races to succeed has consigned whole sub groups of black people to crushing poverty and believing there is no way out of it for them unless the government does it for them.

    And for the government to keep promising it will do it for them so they will keep voting the same people in, and then the government continuing the same failed policies that have created the situation, is criminal. It is those politicians we should be look to for any reparations that are due living people.
    Bingo. Well said.

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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    middle aged white english professors just know these things, Owl. Back out now before he tells you to check your privilege.



    Bingo. Well said.
    Thanks. I am not a middle aged white professor - I'm more of a crusty old female curdmugeon who came up the hard way much as Sowell did and who has enough expertise and who has witnessed up close and personal the truly evil results from do-gooder government programs that honestly don't care what kind of results they are producing so long as they can fool the people into voting for the permanent political class that promotes them.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  9. #99
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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Think legacy.
    Eh, no.
    "We have more responsibility than power, I think. The newspaper can create great controversies, stir up arguments within the community or discussion, can throw light on injustices....just as it can do the opposite. It can hide things and be a great power for evil." -- Rupert Murdoch, 1968

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    Re: Do you believe that America should pay reparations to African Americans?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Thanks. I am not a middle aged white professor - I'm more of a crusty old female curdmugeon who came up the hard way much as Sowell did and who has enough expertise and who has witnessed up close and personal the truly evil results from do-gooder government programs that honestly don't care what kind of results they are producing so long as they can fool the people into voting for the permanent political class that promotes them.
    Wait. Surely you aren't suggesting that you don't even have an associates in Identity Studies? And yet you felt qualified to comment on your own life and the things you have observed?


    :rollseyes: See, this is why we need universal healthcare.

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