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Do you believe in American Exceptionalism?

Do you believe in American Exceptionalism?

  • Total voters
    61
US Conservative said:
Read the post for context, you need it.
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I'm trying to make heads or tails of your inane statement.

Is it your claim that liberals don't "love America" because many of us find the whole "American exceptionalism" concept to be stupid?

The U.S. is a great country, I thank my lucky stars I was born here. And the U.S. has accomplished many amazing things. However, the "we're better than you are" arrogance of "American exceptionalism," a doctrine that seems (at least on its surface) to be that America is fundamentally different and better just because, ignores the nation's flaws and paints an inaccurate picture.
 
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Kobie said:
I'm trying to make heads or tails of your inane statement.

Is it your claim that liberals don't "love America" because many of us find the whole "American exceptionalism" concept to be stupid?

The U.S. is a great country, I thank my lucky stars I was born here. And the U.S. has accomplished many amazing things. However, the "we're better than you are" arrogance of "American exceptionalism," a doctrine that seems (at least on its surface) to be that America is fundamentally different and better just because, ignores the nation's flaws and paints an inaccurate picture.
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As Ive already stated, exceptional does not imply superiority. Thats a value judgement YOU are ignorantly making. Id suggest that reading for context isn't a bad thing, while arguing from ignorance is.
 
us conservative said:
statue%20of%20liberty%20crown%20with%20american%20flag.jpg
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100% yes
 
US Conservative said:
I dont think thats the burden on a political discussion board, do you?
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Oh of course not, because to most of today's conservatives, facts are MEANINGLESS.
Why? Because to many of today's hardcore conservatives, belief trumps fact and science is all "lies from the Pit of Hell".



So that's a really excellent poll question which actually deserves its own thread.
Is there a factual burden that should be respected on a political discussion board?
Is scientific fact worthwhile when discussing political issues?
 
US Conservative said:
As Ive already stated, exceptional does not imply superiority. Thats a value judgement YOU are ignorantly making. Id suggest that reading for context isn't a bad thing, while arguing from ignorance is.
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Far too many people use American exceptionalism as a nicer way of saying American superiority. I frankly don't much care what you "already stated." You're not the only person in the thread.
 
Your poll gives option to answer either right leaning or left leaning, yes or no. Why not have a yes or no option for the people who can stand upright and don't have to lean?
 
So what country would some of you rather live in besides America? Do you take into consideration their laws and/or lack of constitutional rights for individuals?
 
ChrisL said:
So what country would some of you rather live in besides America? Do you take into consideration their laws and/or lack of constitutional rights for individuals?
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I wouldn't, but if I had to leave for whatever reason, I'd probably pick Canada, the UK, Ireland or Australia.
 
Kobie said:
I wouldn't, but if I had to leave for whatever reason, I'd probably pick Canada, the UK, Ireland or Australia.
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Well if the United States is your number 1 choice, then you must think it is at LEAST more exceptional than other countries. Of course, we aren't perfect, but name a country that is! There are many times when I am grateful that I was born here and not in another country.
 
Slow down. Im not debating the value of scientific polls. Im saying thats not the burden of a politics forum. :2wave:


Checkerboard Strangler said:
Oh of course not, because to most of today's conservatives, facts are MEANINGLESS.
Why? Because to many of today's hardcore conservatives, belief trumps fact and science is all "lies from the Pit of Hell".



So that's a really excellent poll question which actually deserves its own thread.
Is there a factual burden that should be respected on a political discussion board?
Is scientific fact worthwhile when discussing political issues?
Click to expand...
 
Kobie said:
Far too many people use American exceptionalism as a nicer way of saying American superiority. I frankly don't much care what you "already stated." You're not the only person in the thread.
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In other words, you wish to argue from ignorance. I guess thats one way to go. :roll:
 
US Conservative said:
In other words, you wish to argue from ignorance. I guess thats one way to go. :roll:
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You're a real sweetheart.

It's "ignorant" to claim that people often conflate "American exceptionalism" with American superiority? Okay, pal.
 
Kobie said:
You're a real sweetheart.

It's "ignorant" to claim that people often conflate "American exceptionalism" with American superiority? Okay, pal.
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Actually its ignorant to pretend the definition of American exceptionalism hasn't already been established as value-neutral and to prefer something not relevant to the discussion.
 
US Conservative said:
Actually its ignorant to pretend the definition of American exceptionalism hasn't already been established as value-neutral and to prefer something not relevant to the discussion.
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Neat.

A key component of "American exceptionalism" is egalitarianism. Only the most delusional among us would believe that America has ever been a truly egalitarian society.
 
Kobie said:
Neat.

A key component of "American exceptionalism" is egalitarianism. Only the most delusional among us would believe that America has ever been a truly egalitarian society.
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Super cool, but it does not change the fact that you are fighting straw men.

Strawman.jpg
 
CRUE CAB said:
If it has to be explained to you, I feel sorry for you. You probably should find greener pastures elsewhere.
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In other words, you don't have an answer. Gotcha.
 
US Conservative said:
American exceptionalism is the theory that the United States is qualitatively different from other nation states.[2] In this view, U.S. exceptionalism stems from its emergence from a revolution, becoming what political scientist Seymour Martin Lipset called "the first new nation"[2] and developing a uniquely American ideology, "Americanism", based on liberty, egalitarianism, individualism, republicanism, populism and laissez-faire.[3] This ideology itself is often referred to as "American exceptionalism."[3]
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I have not entered your poll because, as with many others here, I do not readily fall into the arbitrary categories. However, that is not to say that yours is not an interesting and thought provoking question, or that I do not have a point of view on the matter.

Any -ism is essentially ideological, and the definition published in the Wikipedia is merely the view of the contributor/s concerned. The term American Exceptionalism is used variously, and there is no universal definition governing its use.

Is the USA as a society, and are Americans as a people, exceptional? I would say so, but only to the extent that every society is atypical in many ways. Do I believe in American Exceptionalism - of course not! The term and concept is redolent of inherent and intrinsic superiority, and is as ridiculous as believing in intrinsic conservative or socialist superiority. We are all different, with varying strengths and weaknesses.

There is no best country on earth, and none of us is inherently superior, irrespective of our geographic location, or socio-political beliefs. That is a nonsensical and puerile concept.

It is my view that Americans are accomplished enough, intelligent enough, and generous enough, not to have to bolster their self-confidence with such adolescent self-promotion. You simply have no need of it. :)
 
Leo said:
I have not entered your poll because, as with many others here, I do not readily fall into the arbitrary categories. However, that is not to say that yours is not an interesting and thought provoking question, or that I do not have a point of view on the matter.

Any -ism is essentially ideological, and the definition published in the Wikipedia is merely the view of the contributor/s concerned. The term American Exceptionalism is used variously, and there is no universal definition governing its use.

Is the USA as a society, and are Americans as a people, exceptional? I would say so, but only to the extent that every society is atypical in many ways. Do I believe in American Exceptionalism - of course not! The term and concept is redolent of inherent and intrinsic superiority, and is as ridiculous as believing in intrinsic conservative or socialist superiority. We are all different, with varying strengths and weaknesses.

There is no best country on earth, and none of us is inherently superior, irrespective of our geographic location, or socio-political beliefs. That is a nonsensical and puerile concept.
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Good reply, Leo. I don't think there's anything incomprehensible about the citizens of any country believing their nation to be superior, even though there are many who don't make such claims, Germany comes to mind. In the current epoch of world history, with the continents split up into often arbitrary packages of land and polities, all vying for identity and legitimacy, nationalism flourishes, but the nation state as a unit of governance will eventually dissolve; I think that's inevitable in the long-term, and this idea of any kind of exceptionalism will dissolve with it.

My problem with American (or any other brand of) exceptionalism, is that it presupposes that not all nations must abide by the same rules and behaviours that are applied to all the rest. We can see this most clearly in modern days in the nuclear club. The idea that those nations that already own the means of delivering nuclear catastrophe take it upon themselves to ensure their own exceptionalism by working to deny other nations access to the club is abhorrent, inequitable and dangerous. I don't want to see Iran or N. Korea getting nuclear weapons, but I also passionately want to see the US, France, Russia, UK, China, India, Pakistan and Israel get rid of theirs too.

It is my view that Americans are accomplished enough, intelligent enough, and generous enough, not to have to bolster their self-confidence with such adolescent self-promotion. You simply have no need of it. :)
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Quite. The US, like many other nations, IS exceptional in some regards, but in a more limited definition than that which says that being exceptional brings with it exemption from global standards of behaviour.
 
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